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Discussion in 'Conceal & Open Carry' started by primalrights, Sep 25, 2012.
People that worry about over penetration with hand gun rounds needs to watch this one.
For most people it seems the experts' testimonies mean nothing, going in one ear and out the other.
For many years I too was sold on the ammo companies pitches of needing HPs for 'stopping power' and too avoid over penetration. After reading alot of Dr Martin Fackler's work, seeing alot of people recover after being shot with HPs, and most importantly (for me) watching the Tpr Mark Coates video; I finally changed my mind and now I'm convinced handgun HP ammo is a genious marketing scheme and I instead stick to FMJs.
An from what he was showing, a AR-15 5.56 FMJ round is a lot more dangerous then a handgun FMJ but people still use AR's for self defense.
Waiting for what? Case law in the history of this country has zero legal problems with handloads for use in legal use of lethal force cases. I had a talk with Ayoob once and asked him to show me a conviction, he couldnt, and cannt because there never has been one. Despite his opinion in the rags, he has no fact to base what he publishes.
First shot is a black talon then followed up by Speer gold dot and Winchester back and forth between Speer and Winchester. I want to get a box of black talons. But they r really hard to find.
And expensive ....
Personally I think the newer versions are more effective. If for no other reason that you can now get them in +P and +P+ versions. My duty load is this...
If you want very detailed information on the line you can download the Winchester LE catalog here...
edit: Wow! Just looked at that since it is the newest catalog and Winchester removed the "Handgun Bullet Barrier Testing Protocol" page which was the best part of the catalog. If you want a copy of the 2012 LE Catalog that has this just pm me with an email address.
After having a 40 S&W 165 grain Winchester PP go through one side of a standing particle board pantry and end up in a box of cereal after being stopped by two jars of Jiff peanut butter I went to using 180 grain FMJs which will penetrate a bit further if you must shoot through "soft cover". I know from USPSA competition that most handgun rounds barely penetrate the plastic 55 gallon barrels we use for barricades too (I've watched them fall out the far side and bounce along the ground). If you are going to a gunfight definitely take a rifle.
In my G26 I carry Hornady Critical Defense 9mm 115g. I prefer the lighter grain for handling.
Hornady Critical Defense in my SR9C, my Glock 30SF, and my.380
Right now I have 165gr Federal Premium Hydra Shoks. But when I start carrying, I am going to get The Speer Gold dots. These are what my dad gets issued from his department.
Now that I carry a Glock 22 Gen 3, I carry PDX1 180gr for colder seasons and PDX1 165 gr for hotter seasons
Interesting. I've said in other threads Ayoob has made some silly statements. Like most of the "experts" out there I take some of their advice with a grain of salt. The only issue i would foresee with handloads would be if you were violating a policy as a police officer.