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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
With it becoming closer and closer to the proposed deadline sometime in august what do you think the outcome will be? Im hoping with the recent new york ruling that we are on track for the brace worksheet to be dismissed but who knows. What are your guys thoughts or predictions?
 

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Yesterday I heard mention by end of year now and with SCOTUS's smack down of EPA,which should apply to like agencies and their overreach, we will wait and see.

My thought on the worksheet and agency, both un Constitutional.
 

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Glockin’ since 1993
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Just about everyone in my sphere says they’re not complying.
They (the Government) could actually do themselves more harm than good if it goes to court.
If they use the standard from United States v. Miller, then you could say braces aren’t conducive to Militia “Military” use and braces could be outlawed but being that the military uses short barreled rifles, we could/should be able to run stocks on them!🥳
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I read the worksheet and it's not confusing but I remember thinking that some of the criteria was totally subjective(probably on purpose).
For example:
1. Minimized Rear Surface lacking features to discourage shouldering
What's considered minimized?
2.Presence of a Hand Stop
What is considered a hand stop? If I have a flashlight mounted on it that's technically a hand stop. I included a stock image of a Ruger PC Charger with both a hand stop and a mounted flashlight. If the hand stop were gone the flash light would act as a hand stop.
Machine gun Air gun Trigger Gun barrel Shotgun

3. Presence of Rifle-type Back-up / Flip-up Sights / Or no sights
Both having sights and not having sight will get you points? This one makes me question if I'm reading it wrong. I think it's going after AR's specifically because the flat tops don't have fixed sights. They either have flip ups, no sights or optics.
 

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Just about everyone in my sphere says they’re not complying.
They (the Government) could actually do themselves more harm than good if it goes to court.
If they use the standard from United States v. Miller, then you could say braces aren’t conducive to Militia “Military” use and braces could be outlawed but being that the military uses short barreled rifles, we could/should be able to run stocks on them!🥳
View attachment 271923
I would imagine that United States vs. Miller was a unanimous decision because Miller and his lawyer did not show up for arguments. Here's the opinion from Justice Reynolds, pay attention to the first 6 words: In the absence of any evidence tending to show that possession or use of a "shotgun having a barrel of less than eighteen inches in length" at this time has some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia, we cannot say that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear such an instrument.
 

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Glockin’ since 1993
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48,537 Posts
I read the worksheet and it's not confusing but I remember thinking that some of the criteria was totally subjective(probably on purpose).
For example:
1. Minimized Rear Surface lacking features to discourage shouldering
What's considered minimized?
2.Presence of a Hand Stop
What is considered a hand stop? If I have a flashlight mounted on it that's technically a hand stop. I included a stock image of a Ruger PC Charger with both a hand stop and a mounted flashlight. If the hand stop were gone the flash light would act as a hand stop.
View attachment 271925
3. Presence of Rifle-type Back-up / Flip-up Sights / Or no sights
Both having sights and not having sight will get you points? This one makes me question if I'm reading it wrong. I think it's going after AR's specifically because the flat tops don't have fixed sights. They either have flip ups, no sights or optics.
It’s only designed to discourage lawful gun owners from AR/AK pistols, entrap those that flout the law intentionally or unintentionally and add to government coffers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I read the worksheet and it's not confusing but I remember thinking that some of the criteria was totally subjective(probably on purpose).
For example:
1. Minimized Rear Surface lacking features to discourage shouldering
What's considered minimized?
2.Presence of a Hand Stop
What is considered a hand stop? If I have a flashlight mounted on it that's technically a hand stop. I included a stock image of a Ruger PC Charger with both a hand stop and a mounted flashlight. If the hand stop were gone the flash light would act as a hand stop.
View attachment 271925
3. Presence of Rifle-type Back-up / Flip-up Sights / Or no sights
Both having sights and not having sight will get you points? This one makes me question if I'm reading it wrong. I think it's going after AR's specifically because the flat tops don't have fixed sights. They either have flip ups, no sights or optics.
basically you could pass with zero points if you had one under 26” with a bare pistol buffer tube and a pistol style red dot
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I read the worksheet and it's not confusing but I remember thinking that some of the criteria was totally subjective(probably on purpose).
For example:
1. Minimized Rear Surface lacking features to discourage shouldering
What's considered minimized?
2.Presence of a Hand Stop
What is considered a hand stop? If I have a flashlight mounted on it that's technically a hand stop. I included a stock image of a Ruger PC Charger with both a hand stop and a mounted flashlight. If the hand stop were gone the flash light would act as a hand stop.
View attachment 271925
3. Presence of Rifle-type Back-up / Flip-up Sights / Or no sights
Both having sights and not having sight will get you points? This one makes me question if I'm reading it wrong. I think it's going after AR's specifically because the flat tops don't have fixed sights. They either have flip ups, no sights or optics.
that wouldnt make it past section II lol
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
As long as its a pistol buffer tube and had a red dot with no magnifier this would be 0 points and would pass assuming it was less than 26” long.

Air gun Trigger Shotgun Gun barrel Machine gun


it would also pass with 1 or possibly 3 points depending on how they felt about the same pistol with a sb mini brace, pistol buffer tube and red dot sight with no magnifier
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
They are really trying to just eliminate the braces completely besides a few that would net you with minimal points, but even where it says based on a stock design well the blade brace is shaped sort of like a stock, so does that get points? Even the blade has a hard time passing section II. It gets one point for design elements of a stock, and 2 points for fin type brace with no strap, if the length of pull is adjustable that gets another point which gives you 4, no go

Air gun Trigger Wood Machine gun Gun barrel
 

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As long as its a pistol buffer tube and had a red dot with no magnifier this would be 0 points and would pass assuming it was less than 26” long.

View attachment 271926

it would also pass with 1 or possibly 3 points depending on how they felt about the same pistol with a sb mini brace, pistol buffer tube and red dot sight with no magnifier
Presence of Reflex Sight with FTS Magnifier w/ Limited Eye-Relief 2
Presence of a Sight/Scope with Eye Relief Incompatible with one-handed fire
What's a sight/scope w/ eye relief incompatible with one handed fire? These criteria require definitions that are dependent upon the ATF creating definitions for other items.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Presence of Reflex Sight with FTS Magnifier w/ Limited Eye-Relief 2
Presence of a Sight/Scope with Eye Relief Incompatible with one-handed fire
What's a sight/scope w/ eye relief incompatible with one handed fire? These criteria require definitions that are dependent upon the ATF creating definitions for other items.
any rmr red dot or reflex sight has unlimited eye relief. A reflex sight would be fine but no magnifier which has eye relief. Technically a 1x prism scope would be fine as well
 

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The Supreme Court today ruled against the EPA’s authority to regulate power plants greenhouse gas emissions. It did so by saying that Congress, through the Clean Air Act, did not grant the EPA the authority to adopt on its own a regulatory scheme.
The court said that a decision of such magnitude and consequences rests with Congress itself.
This is good news.
I hope there is something similar out there that the States and the 2nd Amendment community could use to limit the power of the ATF.
 

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9,268 Posts
I read the worksheet and it's not confusing but I remember thinking that some of the criteria was totally subjective(probably on purpose).
For example:
1. Minimized Rear Surface lacking features to discourage shouldering
What's considered minimized?
2.Presence of a Hand Stop
What is considered a hand stop? If I have a flashlight mounted on it that's technically a hand stop. I included a stock image of a Ruger PC Charger with both a hand stop and a mounted flashlight. If the hand stop were gone the flash light would act as a hand stop.
View attachment 271925
3. Presence of Rifle-type Back-up / Flip-up Sights / Or no sights
Both having sights and not having sight will get you points? This one makes me question if I'm reading it wrong. I think it's going after AR's specifically because the flat tops don't have fixed sights. They either have flip ups, no sights or optics.
The worksheet is nothing more than a statement that there will be no legal pistol braces and all will require a tax stamp, no such thing as a braced pistol,all are SBR's.
 

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Glockin’ since 1993
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48,537 Posts
For y’all that haven’t been here since all this brace stuff started it’s been crazy.
One week it’s 100% legal, next week it’s only legal if you don’t touch your shoulder, next week 100% illegal, next week it’s 100% legal again and here we are.
This was a pretty big deal of a case;
Photograph White Air gun Black Trigger

The problem the government and BATFE have now is there’s approximately 20,000,000 in circulation.

There are a number of court cases challenging the Slide Fire stock ban. They’ll be inundated with an overwhelming amount of cases if they try to outlaw braces.
 

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Premium Member
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For y’all that haven’t been here since all this brace stuff started it’s been crazy.
One week it’s 100% legal, next week it’s only legal if you don’t touch your shoulder, next week 100% illegal, next week it’s 100% legal again and here we are.
This was a pretty big deal of a case;
View attachment 271932
The problem the government and BATFE have now is there’s approximately 20,000,000 in circulation.

There are a number of court cases challenging the Slide Fire stock ban. They’ll be inundated with an overwhelming amount of cases if they try to outlaw braces.
Agreed they have been all over the map on this subject which doesn't bid well for any position they take.
I may have pistols but none will be braced until it's legal to do so by more than the convince store that can't make up it's minds say so.
 
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