Thoughts from a New(ish) gun owner.

Discussion in 'General Firearm Forum' started by Webphisher, Feb 12, 2012.

  1. Webphisher

    Webphisher Duct Tape, Alabama Chrome

    So as most of you know the 25th of January I bought my first hand gun. My beloved G19. I've owned a rifle for years but to be honest I have never even shot it. It was inherited from my grandfather.

    Just recently I've started carrying in my car with it on my belt holster. I take it off when I leave the car, I'm in the process of getting my CCW and open carry in Denver is legal but a huge pain in the ass.

    I found it odd last night how much better it made me feel carrying it. Not in the macho "I can totally kill people" blah blah blah way. But more in the way of just feeling more prepared. It took a second to get it adjusted while sitting in the car, but it felt good as hell against my hip when I got it in the right place. It was just kind of weird how much better I felt on that drive home.

    Now I feel it helps to be said that I have wanted a gun for years. I was just finally able to convince myself to go spend the money one. So this isn't a situation where I didn't feel safe in the world, and that I got this gun because I'd had it and been picked on too many times. It was more that my dad was FFLing a new S&W M&P9 that made me finally say to hell with it, I'm getting what I've always wanted.

    Anyway, was interesting thoughts I had on my drive home last night from my buddies house. Thought I would share it with you all and see if anyone had similar feelings the first time they started carrying.
  2. davemanz71

    davemanz71 New Member

    I have my Liscense. I wear mine everywhere but where I'm not supposed to. I wouldn't leave home without it. It's my most important piece to put on. Hopefully I'll never have to pull it but if I do there is one in the chamber waiting

  3. cmiddleton

    cmiddleton New Member

    In my experience my demeanor changed

    When someone cuts me off or flips me the bird while driving it makes me not respond in kind because if they decide to ram my car or follow me to my stop, I don't want to be guilty of escalating the situation.

    It clarifies things that matter and things that don't. I become thick skinned, because I really, really don't want to use it.

    It reassures me that if I need to stop an attack, it is there.

    In my state, if you escalate you cannot use deadly force. There are a couple caveats to this but that is just a general rule. I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.
  4. Webphisher

    Webphisher Duct Tape, Alabama Chrome

    Ya in Colorado if you start the fight you can't use. But if at any point you back down and try to walk away, and the other person re-engages, use of deadly force is authorized again.
  5. iGlock

    iGlock Lead Farmer

    If im not mistaken its the same in AZ, i would have to double check though.
  6. cmiddleton

    cmiddleton New Member

    That is what I hear in NC anyway.

    I have mixed feelings. That means that if someone someone can call me a bad name and spits on me, I can shove them and them when they get up to hit me with their fist I can say, I'm sorry, you win and try to walk away. Then I can shoot them if they pull a knife out and charge me.

    I could have walked away after name calling and spitting.

    If I had not shoved them maybe they would have stopped. Even though I am not legally liable in this instance, I still contributed to the escalation.

    I would hate to argue this in court. It would become he said, she said and I might be charged, jailed or who knows what. Over what, an argument over a red light or a parking space.

    Now that being said. I also understand after working in a California prison that there are people who act like animals. These people generally go straight to force with no warning.

    As I said in another post. Carrying makes me more tolerant and thick skinned. I know if I pull it and use it I will have hell to pay even if I am right and acquitted of all charges. Someone is going to cuff me, take away my gun, interrogate me, make me pay a mint to lawyer and cause me many sleepless nights and worry about my future and how I am going to provide for my family.

    Unless the alternative is death, I won't pull my gun or escalate anything to the point of doing so.
  7. Webphisher

    Webphisher Duct Tape, Alabama Chrome

    Oh don't get me wrong, I had that same first thought. Gee if I wanted to I could rile someone up, say oops my bad and then as soon as he moves legally kill him. But thats taking the law to the extreme.

    I don't carry because I want to kill someone, I carry because I want to be safe and know that if I do die due to someone else's violence, I died doing everything I could have to prevent it.
  8. Happysniper1

    Happysniper1 New Member


    Some thoughts----
    1. Carrying a gun gives you the power of life or death of another human being. As awesome as this power is, it comes with a terribly weighty responsibility. You are absolutely right and I commend you on saying so! Read the thread on here "A Glock Saved Me From Assault" by member Juggler. Watch his video, read comments on Youtube, then read the posts to his thread.

    2. Do you carry on right or left (are you rightie or leftie)? If driving a car and weapon is on right hip/waist, practice sweeping the seatbelt out of the way with left hand as you draw your weapon and address a target out the window. It is harder than one may imagine. I carry strong side and am a rightie. The seatbelt effectively pins my weapon down. My solution was to install a holster under the dash on the center console, in the tunnel space for your legs...a righthand holster positioned butt-up (I twist my arm over, draw the weapon and as I am clearing the steering wheel the hand twists weapon upright. When I get in the car, I unholster and holster into the "car's" holster, the reverse when I park and exit the vehicle.

    3. For in-car carry (if allowed in your state), you could also get those holsters that strap to the base of the seat backrest. They can be for right or left hand draw. Downside is it is immediately visible anytime you open the door.

    4. Best in-car draw from concealed carry on-person that I have ever seen was this fellow whose backup was in an ankle holster.

    5. Worst in-car concealed carry on-person is small of the back (it's a bad carry to begin with!). In an accident, that chunk of metal is going to push awkwardly and painfully into your spine.

    When on the receiving end of road rage, as an armed citizen, I back down. With the windows up, I smile sheepishly and wave a "sorry" to the other guy, even if it is his fault. He gets his stupid ego trip, I win a moral victory. But, when no other course of action is possible and to save my life or that of another occupant of my vehicle, I will address and service the target. Does backing down piss me off? Absolutely! But intellectually, it is the only correct course of action to take. Hats off to you for saying so!

    *PS* not trying to step on anyone's toes. My apologies if it seems that I did :eek:
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2012
  9. Webphisher

    Webphisher Duct Tape, Alabama Chrome

    I carry right, shoot right, but am told I should shoot leftie since I'm left eye dominate. However that doesn't affect my pistol shooting, so far just my rifle. Right now where it sits on my hip its actually not being tied down by the seat belt. My dad talked me out of doing any SoB carry with the good point about breaking your back.

    Right now I'm trying to get used to it being on my hip. When I get my CCW, depending on how long Arapahoe County wants to take to get it to me, then I'll be carrying 100%, where legal, so I will probably be taking my holster now and mounting in car somewhere. I got a Bladetech cheap that I'm using for a bit. My dad is a leather worker that works on holsters and what not, so I've got a couple coming my way from him. I'm also carrying it in the holster around the house right now, again just to get used to it being there.

    I did watch that video a bit back and it was inspiring to say the least. Great video.
  10. Happysniper1

    Happysniper1 New Member





    :( I'm jealous: you can get custom-leather-anything, FREE!
  11. Webphisher

    Webphisher Duct Tape, Alabama Chrome

    Ya, well money wise its free. Im a Photographer by trade so he makes the gear and I take pro shots of it LOL.
  12. Happysniper1

    Happysniper1 New Member

    @webphisher: sounds like a system ya got goin for ya there! Outstanding :D

    Do you phish, as implied by your user name :confused:
  13. Webphisher

    Webphisher Duct Tape, Alabama Chrome

    Not at all. Back in the day before good search engines I was a pro at scouring the net for anything you needed/wanted, so I liked the nickname Webfisher, but liked phisher better as a spelling.

    I knew what phishing was and thought it just added to the cool faster, for the record I was 17 and this was like '97 lol.
  14. Happysniper1

    Happysniper1 New Member

    OK, was just curious (yah-yah, I know, curiosity killed the cat and all that :p

  15. jonm61

    jonm61 New Member

    Just so I'm sure I'm reading it have a right handed holster mounted on the lower dash, under the steering wheel, correct? Or mounted on the left side of the center console, so the magazine is facing up?

    In either case, when you draw, you have to twist your arm to get the gun oriented upright and with the muzzle facing the driver's window, correct?

    If that's the case, I would suggest one of two things. If you like where it's mounted, get a lefty holster, so the gun is already oriented correctly and you save the awkwardness of twisting your arm and the extra second it takes you to do all of that twisting and maneuvering...OR...there are a couple of companies that make a holster for this purpose. It's mounted on a nylon strap, with hooks on either end that catch the top and bottom edges of the panel under the steering wheel. The gun is mounted with the magazine facing right, so when the gun is drawn, it's properly oriented.

    Drawing from an ankle holster, as long as it's on the inside of the left leg, is great in a car, or at least in some. I know that it works perfectly in my Jeep. I don't know that it would work in sports cars though, where your leg is positioned more stretched out than just bent. It's good for drawing from a chair as well, especially if you're in a chair with arms, that impedes getting to your hip!

    Another good car option is crossdraw. There are a couple of companies that make holsters specifically for car crossdraw. I forget who makes mine...I usually only use it on long trips, since I only have one for one gun. It's nice though, as it's leather and has a thumb break, and a leather strap that wraps around the holster, securing on the front of the holster with velcro. You start it under your belt bring it up and wrap it around the holster. It also has a piece of stiff leather that catches to keep it from sliding around...wearing jeans, for instance, it's stopped from moving right by a belt loop, and the leather piece catches in my pocket to keep it from sliding left. Drawing from it, as soon as it clears the holster it's already in position for a shot out the window.

    Andrews Leather in Alachua, FL, makes one called the "Carjacker Crossdraw". He's $$, IMO, but makes some NICE holsters. I've seen him at a couple of gun shows. Nice guy. I got the idea for the holster from him, but found a less expensive version online.

    Everyone I know who carries has said the same thing; they are a different person when carrying a gun. Calmer, thicker skin, more aware of their surroundings and avoids situations where things could turn ugly. I know that's how I am. I'm ready to act, if necessary, but do everything I can to avoid the need.
  16. Reminds me of a photo my dad forwarded to me under the subject title: #1 Car Jacking Prevention Device


    This is not mine (nor my father's), but it's not a bad idea (assuming its legal, it's not exactly concealed in the vehicle).
  17. Webphisher

    Webphisher Duct Tape, Alabama Chrome

    Thats nice, I kinda want a setup like that.
  18. Happysniper1

    Happysniper1 New Member

    Mounted to the "wall" of the center console, where it goes underneath the dashboard. It is near my right knee as I drive (actually, the upper part of the lower leg). I will post pics as soon as my daughter comes home (she wanted to use the H2 today). It is a Blackhawk holster (just my preference) for right-side carry, mounted upside down (magazine up). To the casual observer, it would be covered by my right leg until I need to use it.

    I prefer it this way because I simply like the trigger-finger-on-release-tab-is-also-on-frame-and-above-trigger when I draw. I do not sweep myself, and if the gun did go off as I draw and present to target (not bloody likely! :D) the round will go into the dash or instrument panel. As I unholster and withdraw the pistol, I lean somewhat to the right (and away from the window, creating additional distance from the threat), my left hand is free. As I bring the pistol up and towards me, the natural layout of the bones and muscles in my arm will automatically twist the pistol up and around 180* so it is slide-up and magazine-down. I then withdraw my left hand from wherever it is, bring it in closer to my chest and open palm with fingers pointing towards target, in a position ready to receive my right hand with gun, into a classic two-handed grip. Upper arm muscles still tense from the arm rotation to unholster, my strong side is ready to manage recoil.

    If needed, I can shoot thru the door or the window (but I'd need a pretty damn compelling reason to do so!). On the H2, all exterior panels (door panels, fenders, hood, etc) are all plastic (yehey! no dents and dings!), and I know where the impact beams are inside the door (BTW, window guide rails are reinforced so the window can roll down even if the door frame was somewhat deformed, like in a collision). Upholstery is plastic paneling and leather. Mechanism for the door latch would not be in my line of fire, unless the bad guy is roughly near the rear passenger door, in which case I can always jam it into gear (or reverse) and bull my way out of the scene (if the car is not blocked in, that is), or shoot above the door thru the window. The H2 also has a "panic button" on the drivers' door that opens all windows in about 1 second (useful for emergency escapes) that would remove one barrier between me and the bad guy (while unfortunately exposing the other occupants of the car to any of the bad guys' buddies, if any, but with the tactical engagement method it is possible to get at least round off on each BG). AND, I do not bang my knee into it as I get in and out of the car!

    I almost always use only Serpa by Blackhawk, because I am a big fan of the positive retention method they use. Unfortunately, they are model-specific, so my XD won't fit in it, nor will my Sigma or Beretta or any other handgun. I accept it's design limitations because I prefer to accept the positive retention system it uses. But that's just me.

    If I need to carry any other handgun, I use a ballistic nylon holster strapped to the backrest of the seat, in cross-draw configuration, with a thumb retention strap. In this setup, it becomes easier to shoot thru the door by simply pressing the muzzle into it, but I need to remain aware of the internal location of the door latch mechanism. Unfortunately, as I unholster and present to target, if he is right outside the door he will see my movement and my gun, and possibly try to reach for it before I can get a good point-shooting aim. Large muscle groups working in an awkward position make it clumsy to try to struggle, and if (natural impulse) you try to pull the gun down and away from the window, you are sweeping your left leg. Pull it up, and if it goes off the bad angle and recoil can push the gun into your face. I wear prescription glasses, so this is a definite no-no for me.


    On possible downside: bang your right knee into it whenever you enter and exit the vehicle. I first learned of holsters like these from the NRA online store. After analyzing it, I decided it may not be right for me, but it may be for others. I prefer a rigid holster mounting. If you look closely at the photo, the connection between the mounting strap and the holster does not seem to immobilize the holster, so the nylon holster unit can shift around without the mounting strap moving. I do not like "loose" things, but that's just me. Notice also that there is no retention strap...wonder how the pistol is retained in the holster...friction? Interesting....

    It is in any case better than trapping your handgun under the seatbelt when you buckle up.

    A number of thoughts come to mind in favor of left-leg ankle holster: from outside the car, it actually looks like you may be engaging the parking brake (remember the old lever-type pbrakes under the dash?), one less thing to alert the BG to your intentions. It can also look like you dropped your keys on the floor. It is also the absolute fastest draw from driver's seat that I have ever seen.

    All that being said, I must declare that the methods I mention are methods I use, purely out of personal preference and out of practical performance that I achieved out of my methods and choices, reinforced with lots of practice. What I like, others may not, for their own reasons. What I dislike (or do not prefer), others may adore. There is no one-size-fits-all solution to concealed carry (and drawing from CC) while in a car. A lot depends on the car, the gun, the shape and size of the shooter, his/her level of training and competence in the areas of drawing from holster, grip control and weapon retention as well as recoil management and other factors. Climate also plays a role: do you drive with the windows up or down? Also, I have been told that it is not desireable to handle my gun as I enter and exit the vehicle (unholster from waist, holster into "car's" holster; withdraw from car and holster on waist, everytime I get in or out of the car) but I choose to do it this way.

    These comments are my own, these methods are what work for me, and my opinions are mine and mine alone. I am simply sharing ideas that you can now use to decide how you wish to carry in a car.

    As long as you do not simply drop a pistol in Condition One (all Glocks when chambered are Condition One) into the door pocket, console box, or (God forbid!) the glove compartment. Use a holster, any holster, one that covers the trigger guard. Then consider how you can obtain the weapon and present to threat, based on your holster choice and/or choice of carry.

    Stay safe, and have a nice day y'all! ;)