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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have been thinking about doing some polishing on slides, barrels, pins, Just small stuff in my off time and was told that I have to have a gunsmith FFL.. Is this true if im not working on lowers? I live in Oklahoma if that matters.. Thanks for your help!
 

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FFL (federal law) dictates the reciever portion (the lower) is the firearm. So to receive those through the mail and to work on them, you have to have an FFL. YOu have to have a secure place to store them and you have to check them in and out of your log book.

If it's just slides, pins, etc. then no.
Check your local laws though.

D
 

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Incorrect. A FFL is only required for sale of a firearm, not for work on one. There is no such thing as a "gunsmith" FFL. Many gunsmiths also have FFLs, so they can customize and sell weapons, but doing things like polishing and refinishing require nothing.

When you send a weapon to be worked on, if a FFL were required, you would have to have it shipped back to a FFL, fill out a 4473 and pay a transfer fee to pick it up, which you do not have to do; the person/company working on the gun ships it right back to your home. The same is true with warranty work from a manufacturer. You ship to them, they ship it back to you. No FFL involved.

You can actually manufacture a weapon, for personal use, without a FFL. You can even later transfer that weapon to someone else when you are tired of it. As long as it is not a regular thing, or a regular part of your business, you are not a "manufacturer" and do not need a FFL.
 

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Incorrect. A FFL is only required for sale of a firearm, not for work on one. There is no such thing as a "gunsmith" FFL. Many gunsmiths also have FFLs, so they can customize and sell weapons, but doing things like polishing and refinishing require nothing.

When you send a weapon to be worked on, if a FFL were required, you would have to have it shipped back to a FFL, fill out a 4473 and pay a transfer fee to pick it up, which you do not have to do; the person/company working on the gun ships it right back to your home. The same is true with warranty work from a manufacturer. You ship to them, they ship it back to you. No FFL involved.

You can actually manufacture a weapon, for personal use, without a FFL. You can even later transfer that weapon to someone else when you are tired of it. As long as it is not a regular thing, or a regular part of your business, you are not a "manufacturer" and do not need a FFL.

Not sure who that "incorrect" Was directed at, but here is the info direct from the ATF:

Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?
A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.

[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A)]

Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]

Hope this helps clear things up for the OP.

D
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
dwcfastrice said:
Not sure who that "incorrect" Was directed at, but here is the info direct from the ATF:

Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?
A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.

[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A)]

Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]

Hope this helps clear things up for the OP.

D
It does clear things up. Thank you
 

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jonm61 said:
Incorrect. A FFL is only required for sale of a firearm, not for work on one. There is no such thing as a "gunsmith" FFL. Many gunsmiths also have FFLs, so they can customize and sell weapons, but doing things like polishing and refinishing require nothing.

When you send a weapon to be worked on, if a FFL were required, you would have to have it shipped back to a FFL, fill out a 4473 and pay a transfer fee to pick it up, which you do not have to do; the person/company working on the gun ships it right back to your home. The same is true with warranty work from a manufacturer. You ship to them, they ship it back to you. No FFL involved.

You can actually manufacture a weapon, for personal use, without a FFL. You can even later transfer that weapon to someone else when you are tired of it. As long as it is not a regular thing, or a regular part of your business, you are not a "manufacturer" and do not need a FFL.
From the ATF website, contradicting what you said.

Q: Is a license needed to engage in the business of engraving, customizing, refinishing or repairing firearms?
Yes. A person conducting such activities as a business is considered to be a gunsmith within the definition of a dealer.
[27 CFR 478.11]
Q: Does a gunsmith need to enter in a permanent “bound book” record every firearm received for adjustment or repair?
If a firearm is brought in for repairs and the owner waits while it is being repaired or if the gunsmith is able to return the firearm to the owner during the same business day, it is not necessary to list the firearm in the “bound book” as an “acquisition.” If the gunsmith has possession of the firearm from one business day to another or longer, the firearm must be recorded as an “acquisition” and a “disposition” in the permanent "bound book" record.
 

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Interesting. Last time I looked, which has been a while, that was not how it was explained.

I have been thinking about doing some polishing on slides, barrels, pins, Just small stuff in my off time and was told that I have to have a gunsmith FFL..Is this true if im not working on lowers? I live in Oklahoma if that matters.. Thanks for your help!
You do not need an FFL for what you plan on doing, as you are not working on a firearm. The frame is the firearm.

I will qualify that by saying that if the person sends you the complete gun, you may need one. ATF says yes, case law says no.

There is a difference between "transferring" a gun to a "resident" of another state and sending a gun to a business that is going to return it to you. In any case, even if you're only working on guns within the state, you may still be required to keep a bound book and log the guns in and out. Check your state laws.

If you plan on having them ship the whole gun, vs just the slide/barrel or whatever you're working on, then you'll need a Type 1 FFL.

If you plan on buying guns, altering them (whether it's cosmetic, repair or refurbishing of older/surplus guns) and then selling them, you need a Type 7 FFL.
 

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From the ATF website, contradicting what you said.

Q: Is a license needed to engage in the business of engraving, customizing, refinishing or repairing firearms?
Yes. A person conducting such activities as a business is considered to be a gunsmith within the definition of a dealer.
[27 CFR 478.11]
Q: Does a gunsmith need to enter in a permanent “bound book” record every firearm received for adjustment or repair?
If a firearm is brought in for repairs and the owner waits while it is being repaired or if the gunsmith is able to return the firearm to the owner during the same business day, it is not necessary to list the firearm in the “bound book” as an “acquisition.” If the gunsmith has possession of the firearm from one business day to another or longer, the firearm must be recorded as an “acquisition” and a “disposition” in the permanent "bound book" record.
Willing to wager a certain former member of this forum is coming down with a severe case of soiled underwear, reading that little bit about out of state recipients needing an FFL in order to perform refinishing work on a lower. Oh, and about the log book thing as well.
 

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CountryMick said:
Willing to wager a certain former member of this forum is coming down with a severe case of soiled underwear, reading that little bit about out of state recipients needing an FFL in order to perform refinishing work on a lower. Oh, and about the log book thing as well.
Oh trust me, the ATF has/will be informed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I'm mainly just thinking about doing local stuff. Maybe it will will turn into more later on.
 

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jkurtz said:
I'm mainly just thinking about doing local stuff. Maybe it will will turn into more later on.
Anything to do with lowers or complete firearms you must have an FFL. I do not sell or distribute lowers or complete firearms, I do not have an FFL. Stay away from those and you'll be fine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
blackwolffcf said:
Anything to do with lowers or complete firearms you must have an FFL. I do not sell or distribute lowers or complete firearms, I do not have an FFL. Stay away from those and you'll be fine.
Yeah thats what I plan on. Just slides, barrels
 
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