[BoShimTang]

What are people's views on qualifications for a CHP/CCW?

I believe that anyone that can legally own a firearm ought to be able to carry that firearm concealed without any additional constraints being placed on them. Here in Colorado, it is relatively easy to obtain a permit but between the cost of the class and the cost of the background checks it does run approximately $200. It took me about two months after I completed the "training" to get an appointment with the Sheriff's Office and 96 days after that I received my permit. It is supposed to take 90 days or less but sometimes there are glitches and we happen to have a really great sheriff so I didn't make a fuss. I did call them on day 91 to ask about it...

Why should we have additional barriers in place for carrying a concealed weapon? Does this in and of itself not constitute infringement as in "the right to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT be infringed?" Especially in states such as Texas where open carry is not permitted.

Before anyone gets carried away with the need for training I would certainly agree that anyone that accepts the responsibility of carrying a firearm needs to also know how to use that weapon and should practice incessantly to maintain proficiency. However, is this something that the State should mandate? In the event that one finds oneself in a situation where lethal force is necessary I would agree that one should be held accountable for every round that gets fired. Thus training and practice would be essential to ensuring legal immunity.

I am very interested in hearing other people's thoughts on this issue. Thank you!

 

[buildit]

I would agree that the CCW laws are an infringement upon the 2nd amendment. However, we train troops and police on how to handle and shoot their weapons as well as educating them about laws. So it is a double edged sword as we want our front line citizens who desire to defend themselves and family to be competent and knowledgeable about where their rights stand. I was willing to pay the price and felt the information I got was valuable and worth the price ($175) just for the class.

 

[brady712]

I've been a firearms instructor and officer of 20 years. I have taught ccw training classes since it began in 2004 here in Ohio. Not only do people need the training...they need much more. Police officers included. As far as the ccw goes, I'm only with them for two hours on the range. Yet I feel we should be with them for days. (very few have the necessary skills or knowledge). Ohio has now done away with any continued education for ccw licensee's and it completely baffles me. And it's not the shooting part that I feel is needed. Safety of course should be included but the number one thing is that folks will not keep up with the current law changes and such that could very easily result in a lot of trouble with the law. It's a shame Ohio has done that. They're are way too many of these folks, officers included that will be affected negatively.

 

[wrpNYFL]

In FL, at the range, I met a guy who had no idea about basic gun safety. He was swinging his gun around with the action closed and making me really nervous. I would hate for him to be carrying. I do think that everyone should go through some basic safety training before they can carry. It is a conundrum.

 

[geohon73]

In FL, at the range, I met a guy who had no idea about basic gun safety. He was swinging his gun around with the action closed and making me really nervous. I would hate for him to be carrying. I do think that everyone should go through some basic safety training before they can carry. It is a conundrum.

My first time at range, first tome shooting a gun, my friend was surprised I knew all the safety practices. I watched lot of videos on gun range safety before I went. Now I go to range and see the stupidest people doing the stupidest stuff with their firearms. I agree with you, people def. Need some basic training. I haven't had any training yet but I am totally confident in myself when I go shooting. I will however go for training soon.

 

[kalison]

In FL, at the range, I met a guy who had no idea about basic gun safety. He was swinging his gun around with the action closed and making me really nervous. I would hate for him to be carrying. I do think that everyone should go through some basic safety training before they can carry. It is a conundrum.

Agreed. Lots of people are ignorant of proper gun handling.

 

[BlueSteel89]

In PA in order to get a hunting license you must pass a basic safety course. You get your hunter safety card and then you can buy your license. I think people should be required to pass a basic safety course in order to purchase a gun. To me a 4 hour course that teaches knuckle heads how to handle a firearm safely is not an infringement on my 2nd amendment. I would suggest a minimal requirement for obtaining a CCW as well. I know some will argue against, but how often do you go to the range and see bad safety practices?

 

[geohon73]

In PA in order to get a hunting license you must pass a basic safety course. You get your hunter safety card and then you can buy your license. I think people should be required to pass a basic safety course in order to purchase a gun. To me a 4 hour course that teaches knuckle heads how to handle a firearm safely is not an infringement on my 2nd amendment. I would suggest a minimal requirement for obtaining a CCW as well. I know some will argue against, but how often do you go to the range and see bad safety practices?

Last visit to the range there was a guy that rented a Beretta, didn't even know how to load mags, told clerk he knew nothing about guns. A lady with a loaded revolver standing behind me playing with the hammer, I almost crapped my pants

 

[Indy36]

I hate to say it but frankly, having a clean record isn't enough for gun ownership. People need training. I have seen some really stupid people at gun stores. If you start with, "I need a gun" then they shouldn't sell you one. And my state requires nothing but a few bucks, clean history, and time, to get your carry license. This is the same as selling a guy a top fuel dragster and providing zero training on how it works. It's an accident waiting to happen. Many of us love guns. We study them. We read. We dive neck deep into the shooting hobby and take classes and tactical training. Then there are those that buy a gun and do nothing more. It's their right, glad they have it, but it's a disservice and dangerous.

 

[BoShimTang]

I appreciate all of the feedback that everyone has given so far.

One thing that I would like to clarify is that I am a firm believer in training. I view this as a personal responsibility that ever person that decides to carry a weapon should undertake. I also believe that any one that uses a firearm in a negligent or illegal manner should be held fully accountable. Irregardless of training.

However, I do not believe this should be mandated by the State. I also believe that the State should not impose additional barriers to include fees, time, and background checks to allow CCW. To my knowledge, Vermont is the only State that shares my views. As I understand it, if a Vermont citizen can legally own a firearm, they can legally carry that firearm concealed... Why do no other States take this approach?

Don't get me wrong, I fully support background checks on purchases through FFLs. Although I doubt that these checks do anything to prevent criminals intent on obtaining a firearm from successfully doing so.

 

[buildit]

I'm sure that I sound preachy when I get on my responsibility rant about laws not solving anything. It's up to US to change the gun culture in this country where people think that just having a gun is enough. My opinion is responsibility in handling firearms, responsibility in storing firearms when not in use and responsibility in use of defense by knowing the laws is paramount. It is the same type of responsibility our parents hopefully tried to teach when we were learning about firearms as kids. To me it's just like motorcycles. In Ohio it really takes very little to get a motorcycle license and there is no restriction on the type or size of bike a learner can buy. So a learner who takes the written test (temps) can hop on a 1400 cc sport bike and kill themselves real easy. As motorcyclists we try to get everyone to seek training like the Motorcycle Safety Foundation classes or other accredited sources. But you can still find folks on bikes they can't control, with no safety gear driving like they are the only people on the road. Compare this to the person who has never handled a gun but buys a Glock (any caliber or size) and 50 rounds and off they go. Their chances are real good to hurt themselves or someone else before they ever have the chance to use that gun for it's intended purpose.
To change this I offer anyone with no experience the opportunity to come with me and learn for free. I'm not a professional, but when I'm done whether it's a motorcycle or a gun they understand why more training is necessary and have good basic understanding of the controls, dangers and what to look out for from others who claim to be safe people with no training. I would ask anyone else who knows someone getting into firearms to offer them the same thing. That hour or two of information may be the start of a course of thought and action that saves their life or yours. Moreover you have added another responsible owner to the country and increased the ability for us to argue for laws that respect owners.

 

[wrpNYFL]

I'm sure that I sound preachy when I get on my responsibility rant about laws not solving anything. It's up to US to change the gun culture in this country where people think that just having a gun is enough. My opinion is responsibility in handling firearms, responsibility in storing firearms when not in use and responsibility in use of defense by knowing the laws is paramount. It is the same type of responsibility our parents hopefully tried to teach when we were learning about firearms as kids. To me it's just like motorcycles. In Ohio it really takes very little to get a motorcycle license and there is no restriction on the type or size of bike a learner can buy. So a learner who takes the written test (temps) can hop on a 1400 cc sport bike and kill themselves real easy. As motorcyclists we try to get everyone to seek training like the Motorcycle Safety Foundation classes or other accredited sources. But you can still find folks on bikes they can't control, with no safety gear driving like they are the only people on the road. Compare this to the person who has never handled a gun but buys a Glock (any caliber or size) and 50 rounds and off they go. Their chances are real good to hurt themselves or someone else before they ever have the chance to use that gun for it's intended purpose.
To change this I offer anyone with no experience the opportunity to come with me and learn for free. I'm not a professional, but when I'm done whether it's a motorcycle or a gun they understand why more training is necessary and have good basic understanding of the controls, dangers and what to look out for from others who claim to be safe people with no training. I would ask anyone else who knows someone getting into firearms to offer them the same thing. That hour or two of information may be the start of a course of thought and action that saves their life or yours. Moreover you have added another responsible owner to the country and increased the ability for us to argue for laws that respect owners.

Plus one on that... When I take a new shooter out, I insist on giving them the basic training lecture on the way to the range, and then give them practical training before I will even let them shoot one of my guns without me over their shoulder. They quickly understand why....

 

[dwcfastrice]

Any of my students, even "Established" students get a safety lecture before we step foot in the range. It's for my protection and theirs. How many times have you heard stories (some relayed on here) of an "Experienced" shooter being extremely unsafe.

As for training being a "requirement", PA doesn't require any training to obtain your CCW. Politically, I like this. On the flip side, I believe it's a double edged sword as you now have a lot of folks who don't know what they don't know running around with carry pieces.

Some folks will be responsible and not carry unless they get some sort of training. These are the folks that end up calling me or other trainers in PA. Unfortunately, most folks won't take that opportunity since they can learn it all on the Internet.

(notice the Concealed Carry Fanny pack...)

So I guess I fall in the camp that it should not be a requirement to purchase or own a firearm, but a basic safety course should be required for a CCW permit.

D

 

[capitalcityglock]

Funny how in most states you need to take extensive training and pass an exam and practical test in order to get a drivers license....no such training requirement to buy a firearm and not much more to get a concealed carry permit in most jurisdictions...but, then again, despite all the driver training,we still have too many auto related deaths

 

[WB973G30sf]

I live in pa and trust me wen I tell u ppl are stupid round here.must be.the tap water I don't drink it they should throw and I.Q test in there lol

 

[BoShimTang]

Funny how in most states you need to take extensive training and pass an exam and practical test in order to get a drivers license....no such training requirement to buy a firearm and not much more to get a concealed carry permit in most jurisdictions...but, then again, despite all the driver training,we still have too many auto related deaths

Don't forget that driving is a privilege whereas firearms ownership is a right. There is a BIG difference between the two.

 

[msaone]

Hmmm, I learned gun safety from my dad and the fact that I have half a brain. Anyone swinging a gun around should be slapped. What happened to basic sense?

 

[BoShimTang]

Hmmm, I learned gun safety from my dad and the fact that I have half a brain. Anyone swinging a gun around should be slapped. What happened to basic sense?

That's sort of my point. Training is an individual responsibility and basic gun safety should be taught to children by their parents.

What I am really getting at is why is Vermont the only State that recognizes the Second Amendment as "the authority" for its citizens to carry a concealed weapon? Keep in mind this only applies to citizens lawfully authorized to own a firearm.

Why have the citizens of other States not demanded that their State Legislators ease the burdens placed on obtaining a CCW by eliminating the requirement to have one in the first place? Thus far, the majority of the responses to this thread appear to be in favor of more stringent requirements. Although I have only recently begun to think of these things, I don't understand that sort of thinking...

I agree that anyone that is carrying a weapon should be held to a higher standard in the event that weapon is ever utilized. Thus, motivation for individual training and proficiency should be quite high.

 

[SpokaneCJ]

You make a valid point. The responsibility of carrying, OC or CC, is a big one. Anyone who "Legally" owns a firearm should be held to a higher standard.

I live in WA state which is a "Shall Issue" state. Even though I have my CPL, I am not going to carry just because I can. I feel that anyone who makes the decision to carry a weapon must have the proper training; both practical and more importantly psychological. The act of carrying a gun should have consequences that go beyond statue.

If and when I ever have to draw my gun, which gratefully has never occurred, it is MY responsibility to myself and everyone around me to know that I am in complete control of my actions. I truly hope the day never comes that I have to make that split second decision.

I am a physician by trade and my training has been mostly "reactive"; we react to the presenting condition. This is not, in my opinion, the mindset that a gun owner / carrier should have. Ownership has its privileges but more importantly has a greater responsibility that many people do not understand.

Training and continued education should be paramount to everyone who carries a weapon.

 

[BoShimTang]

Again I really appreciate everyone's comments... This has been educational to say the least. However, somehow I'm not getting my main questions addressed. Please note that this thread is posted under "Second Amendment and Legal" as opposed to "Training."

Are there any thoughts on the questions I've posed from this perspective? A few people have touched on it but I'm afraid that my efforts to avoid the training topic have only driven the discussion further in that direction.