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Here are a couple of videos by Travis Haley that are pretty germane to the topic here.


This one is demonstrated with a carbine but it goes into the "why" behind reloads

You aren't going to hurt your gun doing reloads using the slide release. The pros are obviously that it is faster to reload using this method compared to coming over the top of the slide. As noted in the videos and by many others, when using guns you are familiar with, the idea of not using the slide-release because it is a fine motor skill perhaps is not the most valid concern.
 

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Here are a couple of videos by Travis Haley that are pretty germane to the topic here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFIsPjEXt70

This one is demonstrated with a carbine but it goes into the "why" behind reloads
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6Ta8t16lrk

You aren't going to hurt your gun doing reloads using the slide release. The pros are obviously that it is faster to reload using this method compared to coming over the top of the slide. As noted in the videos and by many others, when using guns you are familiar with, the idea of not using the slide-release because it is a fine motor skill perhaps is not the most valid concern.
EXCELLENT!!! :rayof:

His commentary is great! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

For me, the following comments really 'hit the nail on the head'. (Travis Haley: Speed Reloads @ 2:56)

"There's lots of different scenarios... and lots of different techniques that I'm not absolute to. I'm always being able to adapt in any environment that I'm in."
Thanks! :thankyou:

Best regards,

Bob :)
 

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Here are a couple of videos by Travis Haley that are pretty germane to the topic here. <Snip>

As noted in the videos and by many others, when using guns you are familiar with, the idea of not using the slide-release because it is a fine motor skill perhaps is not the most valid concern.
OK. Since Travis Haley said that fine motor skills are not diminished in a high stress scenario, then the debate is over. :rolleyes: His analogy to prove his point with fighter pilots is like comparing apples and oranges in a SHTF, life altering event with the average person.

I'm not singling you out in any fashion, but your post is the most recent as it alludes to fine motor skill issues.

I'm not here to debate which technique anyone should use when it comes to releasing the slide. I'm all for whatever works for a given person. For me, I take the high road and slingshot the slide with an overhand grip. That works for me.

But when it comes to what happens in a HIGH stress, self-defense scenario, there are certain things that happen physiologically that cannot be controlled. Certain things happen when there is a dump of hormones/chemicals within the body when high stress is induced. This dump automatically happens, and you don't have control of it.

I'm not going to get into the weeds about the autonomic nervous system, but if you do any study, you'll find that the sympathetic nervous system acts in a particular way which ultimately may hinder fine motor skills.

Sure, there are factors which may help minimize the effect (training, confidence in equipment, etc.) , but there are no guarantees when the rubber meets the road.

To simply say that diminished fine motor skills is not a valid concern is something I would totally disagree with. On this, we'll apparently agree to disagree.

I will grant you that the "typical" self-defense scenario may be over in seconds, and there may not be noticeable overt effects of the Sympathetic Nervous System in what you do. But, if you are involved in some sort of protracted event, then I would argue that the effects are more likely to become noticeably detrimental (decreased fine and complex motor skills, tunnel vision, etc.). Then again, since the "switch" for this response cannot be controlled, all you can do is prepare for it with your training.

The subject of survival stress response (what we're talking about here) is actually pretty interesting, and there's a fair amount of info about it (and its effects). Here are a couple resources for anyone interested:

www.personalprotectionsystems.ca/books/articles/the_anatomy_of_fear.pdf

http://www.killology.com/art_psych_combat.htm
(This is just one section out of the entire article)

I personally train to keep things simple. You can debate muscle memory and such when it comes to releasing a slide versus a lever (I know you didn't state this, but I've thrown it in anyway). We'll politely disagree as to the physiological effects of being in a gunfight, but I'll take the high road to avoid Murphy and whatever issues may come to bear. That's just me and YMMV.

Best regards,

Dave
 

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I just think people saying that you shouldn't train using your slide release because it is more of a fine motor skill than coming over the top of the slide and you won't likely be able to do that under stress is myopic, not incorrect. I think its misplaced in the fact that there are much bigger things to worry about performance wise that we seem to gloss over. Lots of things about shooting involve fine motor skills; I know teaching people to always come over the top of the slide substitutes a faster reload method for a more reliable one, but think about all of the other skills that will go out the window that we don't seem to mention. If you can't press a button how good is your trigger press going to be, what kind of sight picture are you going to have, what will your draw stroke look like, you might fumble pressing your mag release, performing the reload is much more difficult than pressing the slide release so that might also be problematic.

I will agree with you that people who do not practice enough or who only want to shoot at the minimum level to be able to carry would be better served by dumbing down certain procedures so it is harder to screw up. What we should be telling people to do is train more. Everything about shooting a handgun well is difficult, the prudent thing to do is to increase our skill level. How many people do you know that shoot at least 250 rounds each week, every week and dryfire 5 days a week compared to people who just like to talk about their guns, shoot four boxes of ammo a year and think they are good to go and carry it. If you aren't training regularly, doing dry practice, constantly increasing your competency, you should have bigger concerns than "should I 'power-stroke' or will I be able to hit a button?"
 

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Lots of things about shooting involve fine motor skills; I know teaching people to always come over the top of the slide substitutes a faster reload method for a more reliable one, but think about all of the other skills that will go out the window that we don't seem to mention. If you can't press a button how good is your trigger press going to be, what kind of sight picture are you going to have, what will your draw stroke look like, you might fumble pressing your mag release, performing the reload is much more difficult than pressing the slide release so that might also be problematic.
That's the overarching issue, isn't it?

Under stress, ALL of our fine motor skills diminish. Furthermore, under extreme stress, our gross motor skills diminish as well. (How many of us have been so 'upset' we couldn't stand up? I have... and I couldn't.) :(

Yet, it seems that many people simply don't understand or fully appreciate that it WILL happen... so they don't prepare for it.

To all:

Please read...

"Psychological Effects of Combat"
http://www.killology.com/art_psych_intro.htm

particularly...

"Psychological Effects of Combat" The Physiology of Close Combat
http://www.killology.com/art_psych_combat.htm

then decide how you're going to train.

Then train... and train... and train... then train some more.

Best regards,

Bob :)
 

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For what it's worth, this is the technique I was taught, learned, practice, use, and very strongly advocate...

Loading from empty
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVGQQhkjzec[/ame]

About Clint Smith
https://www.thunderranchinc.com/about-clint-smith/

Best regards,

Bob :)
 

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If you're worried about the slide stop wearing out the slot where it rests, I think your fears are unwarranted. I find it hard to believe that it could erode to any point of failure. Unless you are doing it many times every day for a reeeeeaaaaalllly long time, it just shouldn't be an issue.

It is much more likely that you would have to replace the slide stop, and not the slide...

But that is just my opinion....
 

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Maybe so but the slide is aluminum and the slide stop is steel and under spring tension.
 

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Maybe so but the slide is aluminum...
Incorrect.


The slide isn't aluminum.
Correct.


General Overview of the Glock
http://www.f-r-i.com/glock/misc/overview.htm

The Tenifer-treated slide and barrel

Glock barrels and slides are made from quality steel which has been treated with a special "Tenifer" process. This colorless carbo-nitrate formula enriches the steel with oxygen, sealing its pores. Tenifer makes the steel extremely hard (as hard as industrial diamond on the Rockwell scale) and corrosion resistant. The steel will not scratch or rust, period! In fact, the slide is so hard you can use it to sharpen your knives.

The barrel is treated both inside and out. Because of this, Glock barrels do not show the normal wear associated with untreated barrels by other manufacturers. Glock, Inc., has one barrel which has fired one million rounds and still works; another has fired 300,000 rounds and still shoots better than 1½" groups!

Glock also parkerizes the slide and barrel to give them a matte black color. While the parkerizing might wear off showing "bare" steel beneath, the Tenifer is still there. In fact, it penetrates the steel to a depth of three microns. Even a Glock which has lost all of its matte black finish is still scratch- and rust-proof.
Best regards,

Bob :)
 

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If you're worried about the slide stop wearing out the slot where it rests, I think your fears are unwarranted. I find it hard to believe that it could erode to any point of failure. Unless you are doing it many times every day for a reeeeeaaaaalllly long time, it just shouldn't be an issue.

It is much more likely that you would have to replace the slide stop, and not the slide...

But that is just my opinion....
Yea i hear all the time you will wear out the notch on the slide but have yet to see anywhere were someone had to replace the slide because they used the slide stop/release to much and wore it out.

This debate like a lot of other firearm debates will never end.
 

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Many firearm manuals state either way is acceptable. Only firearms I have have ever owned that the manuals states the recommended way to chamber a rd using the slide release are my Kahr firearms..... the CM9 and the CW380.
 
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