Open Carry Police Encounters

Discussion in 'Conceal & Open Carry' started by jimmyalbrecht, Apr 21, 2012.

  1. jimmyalbrecht

    jimmyalbrecht Glockn Rollin

    Ok so, I was watching videos on youtube of people who walk around open carrying. It seems as if their only goal is to piss cops off. I understand, that there is no need to show id, and if your state allows it, you are breaking no laws.

    Why is itthat these guys are such buttholes to the cops? How easy would it be to give the cop your CC license because they got called out, and prove to them in a few seconds that you are lawfully carrying the weapon? It takes a few seconds, does not harm you, and will do a great amount to preserve the relationship between LEO's and law-abiding carriers of firearms.

    You have a right not to show the cops your id, yes, but come on man. I also have a right to say whatever I want, but that doesn't mean I have to abuse it and talk ugly to every single person I see. It's called respect and common courtesy. No wonder society has a bad image of people who carry weapons. People like this are not helping in our fight to maintain our 2nd Amendment rights in my opinion.
     
  2. Happysniper1

    Happysniper1 New Member

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    You are absolutely right, Jimmy.

    I recall not long ago there was a thread on here with a video of this guy who intentionally went downtown OC, to see what would happen. As expected, he was accosted by police (two cops on bicycles), and while the dude was within his rights and he was not outright rude to the police, the overall impression I got was he was being wise-a$$ by first provoking a confrontation and then declaring is rights to not even show ID to the cops.

    In my book, that guy is a d**khead. But that's just me.

    Certainly others will argue that the guy was simply standing up for his rights, and exercising his right to open carry, but he even says in the beginning of his video that he wanted to see what would happen if the cops showed up. Is that not provoking a confrontation?

    There are people who vociferously proclaim their rights, to the exclusion of common sense. Unfortunately.
     

  3. Kmurray96

    Kmurray96 Well-Known Member Supporter

    Welcome to the Jacka** Generation! When fine upstanding people like Snoop-dog and Stevie-O are the new idols, will you really be surprised if or when SHTF?
     
  4. jimmyalbrecht

    jimmyalbrecht Glockn Rollin

    I am a part of that generation unfortunately. But don't throw the baby out with the bathwater haha.
     
  5. Green-Water

    Green-Water New Member

    That's why I'm happy to be in Arkansas. You want to be a punk and not show your permit to LEO? You'll lose that attitude and your permit very quickly!!!!!
     
  6. People try to bait cops into doing something so they can get a lawsuit. Myself and most cops are pretty good about dealing with these idiots. In SC if your carrying and have an encounter with Law Enforcement, you are required to present your cc permit wether your asked for it on not. If you fail to it can be revoked.

    I worked a domestic violence call between husband and wife. During the investigation we needed the husbands License/ID so my 'rookie' coworker walks with him to get it out of a closet. I watched because he made a ROOKIE mistake of allowing the husband to reach and dig all through a dresser instead of getting it for him. Further more allowed the guy to pull out a small bag and go all through it. The guy pulled out his license and then walk back out still carrying this bag.
    I had a BAD feeling about this bag. I asked to hold it but the guy wouldnt let me at first and got snappy. He eventually handed it over. It was pretty heavy and I felt the outline of a gun. Unzipped it and sure enough it was a loaded handgun. I found a valid CC permit in the bag to.
    After this discovery the guy was placed in handcuffs until our investigation was complete for everyones safety. He did NOT like this and went off on a little tirade about how this is a violation of his rights and how he is such an educated, honest, and great citizen who goes to church. He didnt want to hear my concern of how it was pretty suspicious of him to be walking around with a loaded gun while he was being investigated for a possible domestic assault. One of the MOST DANGEROUS calls we have.
    No crime was made but I did a report and took it to the state agency. They are in the process of revoking his permit.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2012
  7. GunnerGSP

    GunnerGSP Active Member

    I've seen some of the same videos. Interesting to watch but so many of these guys are just looking for a confrontation with an LEO.

    I saw one where the police pulled a guy over who was OC while on his motorcycle. As I recall, the officer stated that because the guy had a CPL, he HAD to carry concealed. Huh?!

    I was puzzled by that one.
     
  8. havasu

    havasu Well-Known Member Supporter

    Sounds like you have that seasoned cop's sixth sense. Good job!
     
  9. Just a little common sense when my life depends on it!
     
  10. jimmyalbrecht

    jimmyalbrecht Glockn Rollin

    Laws are changing so quickly in a lot of states, that maybe it used to be that way or something. The general consensus of these videos is that the people are being douche bags with the LEOs. I have had a couple of encounters with LEOs, and every time I showed them respect, and the favor was returned. Them asking for my id is not a tragedy, its not like their attaching a tracking device to my gun. Sure, maybe it is not your "right" to do so, but just place yourself in their shoes. They have no freakin clue who has a permit or not, or who is a felon and is not upon first encounter. You have to understand that they are going to get suspicious if you have a gun and then persistently refuse to present your identification card.
     
  11. GunnerGSP

    GunnerGSP Active Member

    Easy now. I am not taking sides here. I agree that laws change. But if a law dealing with firearms carry changes, it would be a good idea to know what those changes are (whether you are a civilian or an LEO). I do not like the approach so many that OC take when it comes to encounters with LEOs. Being respectful and cooperative is indeed the right approach. So many of these folks are looking for trouble just to prove a point.

    I recently sent a respectful email to my local police chief and asked him how his department handles OC. We exchanged a couple of cordial emails and that was it. I did tell him I was not intending to OC, but was just curious how they approach such a situation within their jurisdiction.

    Here is the link to the video I referenced earlier. It is broken into multiple parts. Within the first minute, I was scratching my head?

    *You have a CCW (in Michigan, a CPL) so you must carry concealed? Huh?*

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxMaJKEVTAo[/ame]
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2012
  12. Happysniper1

    Happysniper1 New Member

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    Yah, unfortunately, common sense is becoming an uncommon commodity nowadays, sadly enough.

    It's those kids who were raised with no sense of respect, now as adults who then have no respect for anyone or anything other than themselves. Mostly.
     
  13. jonm61

    jonm61 New Member

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    Funny, I had a very similar incident with a rookie. It was a suspicious person call, and she was letting him rummage around in the trunk of his car.

    This guy was dressed all in black, semi-tactical, no markings at all, but a pair of Sgt's stripe pins on his collar. Empty holster on his hip and had what looked like a shoulder mic, but I think was an extension speaker for a scanner, that was not attached to anything. He was carrying a little black pouch in his hand. Claimed his ID and the pistol that belonged in his holster were in that trunk.

    I actually went to high school with the rookie. We were in neighboring jurisdictions and I was backing her up on the call, which happened enough that we had a multi-agency channel that all dispatch centers monitored. Faster than a phone call!

    Anyway, I was recovering from injuries from an accident a couple of months before. This night happened to be the first night that I'd actually been able to put my vest on since the accident. (Yes, I was forced to go back to work, despite the fact that it hurt too much to wear my vest and that I couldn't sit in a car for more than a couple of hours at a time. The good old days.) We walk him back to his car. I'm trying to watch what's going on while listening to our radio, because I was shift supervisor and I had a part (read old) timer and a rookie working that night. Both good guys, and together they could almost get through a call by themselves. When it was one or the other, no problem. When I had both of them no a shift, I had to pay closer attention.

    The guy had said a few things that didn't add up, and that were enough to be confusing for both of us. He kept saying he was a "courtesy officer", which is what apartment complexes in the area called police officers who lived there and provided some degree of "security", most of which meant parking their marked unit in a spot near the entrance. :)

    So, she's letting him rummage around in the trunk of his car. (Oh, the car was a Chevy Corsica, which back in the early/mid 90's were used by the Army for MPs on same bases, on which he had a magnet mount cellular looking antenna on the trunk, with the cable attached to nothing, and another one just above the rear window, with the cable cut off. Serious wannabe!) I'm watching, wondering where this gun is, and thought "she's going to get us killed" passes through my mind. I was about to step in when he finally comes out of the trunk with his ID.

    Turns out he has warrants, or at least he matched a warrant in the system and we couldn't verify it wasn't him, so she hooked him up. Turned out that in his little black pouch was a .22 revolver. The cylinder was jammed, so he only had one shot. Fortunately, he didn't take it. That gave him an additional charge of carrying a concealed weapon without a license.

    I don't know anyone who didn't make some mistakes as a rookie.

    This drives me nuts. Like that guy in Philly, who purposely OC'd and always carried a recorder, just looking for a confrontation. There are too many of them.

    It's one thing when an encounter happens and the officers screw up; then a lawsuit gets filed and things change. When some idiot goes around fishing for an encounter, hoping for someone to do something wrong, that just makes everything worse for everyone else.

    I didn't watch the video. I've seen enough of them and they're all basically the same. At least this one wasn't someone fishing.

    As for the "you have to conceal" thing, I've heard it before from other officers in other states that don't understand how it works. There's not enough training given on carry laws, especially OC.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2012
  14. I couldn't agree with you anymore. I love my girls an they have me wrapped around my finger but I am firm as my mom was with me. Half of today's kids wouldn't ever make it in school nowadays if they got paddled in class. I respect my elders and LEOs yes even the cocky cops too. No need giving them ammo against you.
     
  15. GunnerGSP

    GunnerGSP Active Member

    Ditto that. So many young people today are being raised with no respect for authority, be it their parents, teachers, law enforcement, or any adult for that matter.

    This needs to be taught in the home and taught early. Outside the principal's office at my kid's school is framed the following: "The time to teach respect for authority is in the play pen, not the state pen."

    Back to the original topic of OC and encounters with law enforcement. I do not OC nor do I plan to in a public venue. Those that do so must understand that this will draw attention to themselves, resulting in encounters with police. Courtesy and mutual (emphasis on mutual) respect go a long way towards making any such encounters quick and painless.

    I do think citizens can easily become frustrated when detained for OC and then told things like "you *must* carry concealed if you have a license to do so". Unless, of course, that actually happens to be the law where an encounter takes place. Seems unlikey though. However, I do not think it then becomes the citizens responsibility to carry their smart phones, video camera at the ready, looking for an opportunity to "educate" an LEO on the legality of OC and so on. Just cooperate if stopped and then take it to the proper authority in a respectful way.

    We must take a stand for our rights at American citizens, but we are not obligated to be obnoxious in doing so.
     
  16. jimmyalbrecht

    jimmyalbrecht Glockn Rollin

    This officer has my last name haha. Long lost family? Or were you trying to tell me something? ;) lol
     
  17. GunnerGSP

    GunnerGSP Active Member

    No way! You're right. I did not notice that until you posted this.
     
  18. jonm61

    jonm61 New Member

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    You better talk to your cousin there and educate him!
     
  19. Here is another one. When I first started, there was a black man that lived in a wealthy neighborhood. He would put on a nice all white suit and hang around on the neighborhood sidewalks because he knew 'someone' who lived out there would see a 'black guy' and call 911. He was right!

    The first couple of times we actually made contact with the guy because until we get their we don't know. He was totally uncooperative and very unpleasant to deal with, accusing us of racial profiling, begging to be arrested, etc.... After like 10 of the same call in a week with different officers being dispatched out. It got around and we figured out what was going on and stopped responding in reference to the guy.
    Did it upset me the guy was uncooperative, threw a tantrum, and accuse me of racial profiling? NO, I could care less one way or the if he hangs out the sidewalk all day.


    Suspicious person calls are very common and usually end up being nothing. Some so much to the point where I can't believe someone actually called 911 about. But no matter how dumb some calls are we still entertain them to appease the person that called. We make contact with the person in question. Sometimes they cool, and sometimes they flip out. But If you don't go the whole 9 yards, complainant will call in complaints on YOU saying your lazy and just rode by.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2012
  20. Levelcross

    Levelcross New Member

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    I have seen some of these same videos and it does seem that a confrontation with the LEO is all that these guys are after....sounds like the "little winkie" syndrome.

    It is sad that they feel the need to gain attention thru harassment, and then scream harassment themselves.