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· Glockin’ since 1993
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"That is actually a really good idea"
As I said it would be an initial step but something that could be built upon because it's "Common Sense".
Responsible firearm owners have many such "common sense" ideas that could be applied to the firearms problems but we're never included in the firearms debate.
Unfortunate since contrary to the way firearm owners are usually portrayed by anti firearm individuals and groups we're as concerned with the firearms problems in the US as any other thinking citizen; perhaps even more so because we're the ones getting blamed for them.
Ride Safe. Dr.Tramp..............
You are correct but I don’t see us getting a seat at the table. Media and politicians have ramped up demonizing of gun owners. Recently I’ve heard them equate us to domestic terrorists for merely owning firearms.
Including gun owners into the conversation is tantamount to letting the Fox into the henhouse.
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The gun debate is super extreme and polarized. You are either pro gun or anti gun. NO MIDDLE GROUND!!

Which seems like bull**** to me.

And I am a brand new gun owner, I'm still learning how to use my gun. I'm originally from Europe, I did not grow up with guns. Guns were for the cops or the military. No gun culture from where I come from. Some criminals had guns, the cops would arrest them, that was it.

I've been watching a lot of youtube videos on gun safety and gun policy over the past couple of weeks, I like this guy, Paul Harrell, former marine, now instructor. He is very articulate and well reasoned.

 

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Discussion Starter · #123 · (Edited)
We need to stop referring to it as a gun problem, gun epidemic or whatever. Doing so puts the blame on the guns, when we know that in reality the problem lies, among other things, directly on specific individuals, on the criminal element, and perhaps on the loss of family values and the decline of society as a whole; and on the lack of accountability on those pushing for a softer penal system and the complete disregard of the rule of law.
 

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There are two things here: 1. gun safety at the range and 2. gun free zones.

Yes, gun safety at the range makes perfect sense, as does the sign that you display.

But "gun free zones" placards at businesses ... do they actually work?

I am a Red Cross blood platelet donor, I donate platelets every two weeks.

There is a sign at at the door of the donation center where I go, informing me that I cannot carry concealed arms.

I don't even know why anyone would want to carry a concealed weapon when he or she is about to donate blood or blood platelets.

Or maybe it's to warn off criminals, about to steal blood platelets?

But hey, this is California. ;)
If you're carrying concealed, Who needs to know? This whole kabuki theater was nothing more but the next increment of disarming the people.
 

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Hey guys

On July 10 I'll get my first training on the range with my own Glock. I am a gun newbie so this is all pretty new to me. I talked to my instructor tonight, he's a former marine and now works for Homeland Security. He was endorsed by the USCCA. He sounds pretty solid to me.

I want to get this out of the training:

1. A solid understanding of gun safety and gun handling
2. A solid understanding of what I can and cannot do in California to protect me and my loved ones
3. A solid understanding of what 'loved ones' means - is it just me, or my neighbors? Or anyone being threatened with legal force? For example, Asian family with kids across the street being held at gunpoint. Just a hypothetical example.

Anything I am missing?

Thanks!
 

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"You are correct but I don’t see us getting a seat at the table"
We are fighting a war of perceptions. Responsible firearm owners need to stop asking and waiting to be offered a seat at the table and take it upon ourselves to change people's perceptions beginning with our own communities.
Talk and coordinate with other firearm owners and start our own grass-root local efforts to make ourselves heard. Write letters, emails, and make calls to local newspapers, radio, and TV stations and school administrations and bug them until they have to invite us to be interviewed or speak about our opinions.
Then avoid emotional outbursts, arguments, accusations, and demands and instead lay out facts, ideas, and proposals that are "common sense" and explain how they could work to positively effect the firearms problems.
One big thing responsible firearm owners need to do is to separate ourselves from the gun waving "from my cold dead hands" shouting radicals that get all the attention and are portrayed as representing all firearm owners.
I've been using firearms for 65+ years and these people damn sure don't represent me. Frankly I consider them to be both an embarrassment and harmful to responsible firearm owners.
Ride Safe. Dr.Tramp...............
 

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Discussion Starter · #129 ·
"You are correct but I don’t see us getting a seat at the table"
We are fighting a war of perceptions. Responsible firearm owners need to stop asking and waiting to be offered a seat at the table and take it upon ourselves to change people's perceptions beginning with our own communities.
Talk and coordinate with other firearm owners and start our own grass-root local efforts to make ourselves heard. Write letters, emails, and make calls to local newspapers, radio, and TV stations and school administrations and bug them until they have to invite us to be interviewed or speak about our opinions.
Then avoid emotional outbursts, arguments, accusations, and demands and instead lay out facts, ideas, and proposals that are "common sense" and explain how they could work to positively effect the firearms problems.
One big thing responsible firearm owners need to do is to separate ourselves from the gun waving "from my cold dead hands" shouting radicals that get all the attention and are portrayed as representing all firearm owners.
I've been using firearms for 65+ years and these people damn sure don't represent me. Frankly I consider them to be both an embarrassment and harmful to responsible firearm owners.
Ride Safe. Dr.Tramp...............
Dr. Tramp,
I agree with your statement and ideas. However, if we keep referring to it as a “firearm problem” we already lost the conversation.
We should call it, perhaps, a violence problem.
 

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Dr. Tramp,
I agree with your statement and ideas. However, if we keep referring to it as a “firearm problem” we already lost the conversation.
We should call it, perhaps, a violence problem.
"we already lost the conversation" Please explain this.
Personally I prefer honesty over sugar coating things with better sounding - politically correct labels. I'd much rather hear an unpleasant truth over a pleasant sounding lie.
We get plenty of pleasant sounding lies from politicians and media talking heads which I believe is part of why we as a nation and society are experiencing many of our current problems.
We are told and have been programmed to accept pleasant sounding lies to evade the unpleasant realities of our failing education system, lack of health care, lack of preparation for looming climate changes, incompetent and venal politicians, and more.
So how about we be honest about at least one thing okay? The US has problems involving firearms.
By honestly addressing these problems maybe we can solve, eliminate, or at least lessen them.
Ride Safe. Dr.Tramp................
 

· Glockin’ since 1993
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We’ve discussed how the left controls speech and invents new words and phrases to manipulate the narrative.
global warming turns to climate change to climate emergency or crisis.
That sets the table. No room for compromise, something must be done immediately!
Same has happened to guns. Biden say’s, Who needs high capacity magazines? You’re a lousy shot and shouldn’t be allowed to hunt!
The sides are picked it’s fighting for the uninitiated and undecideds. Ceding them the terms is handicapping us from the start.
 

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We’ve discussed how the left controls speech and invents new words and phrases to manipulate the narrative.
global warming turns to climate change to climate emergency or crisis.
That sets the table. No room for compromise, something must be done immediately!
Same has happened to guns. Biden say’s, Who needs high capacity magazines? You’re a lousy shot and shouldn’t be allowed to hunt!
The sides are picked it’s fighting for the uninitiated and undecideds. Ceding them the terms is handicapping us from the start.
You are correct. They want to control the narrative, right down to symbols. This is why they attack statues, flags, and children's hand signs. They want to deny their political opponents the ability to speak, organize, or assemble. Sad, but true. The only reasonable voice on the left anymore is Bill Maher. Lot's of the lefties I know now consider him to be a right-winger. This is what happens when we have feckless political leaders who continuously compromise to the left, without every saying "no."
 

· Glockin’ since 1993
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Bill Maher hasn’t had a conversion in faith like some are quick to say. He’s still a committed liberal but not quite signed onto the party line. He was labeled a racist on his views over Islam and terrorism. He has moments of clarity.
The left want their celebrities to mirror the echo chamber. They’re very quick to cancel and shout down any dissent.
Joe Rogan lends his mic to all sides. He’s been labeled a right winger for that as well.
 

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We’ve discussed how the left controls speech and invents new words and phrases to manipulate the narrative.
global warming turns to climate change to climate emergency or crisis.
That sets the table. No room for compromise, something must be done immediately!
Same has happened to guns. Biden say’s, Who needs high capacity magazines? You’re a lousy shot and shouldn’t be allowed to hunt!
The sides are picked it’s fighting for the uninitiated and undecideds. Ceding them the terms is handicapping us from the start.
True but all the more reason to step away from those groups and individuals on both sides of the firearms debate/argument that are currently getting all the attention and start our own groups and create our own ideas for solutions.
Start by stop wasting time and energy attempting to assign blame by arguing and pointing fingers and instead concentrate on the actual problems and possible solutions.
It's not a Republican-Democrat-black-white-liberal-conservative-gay-straight-whatever-whoever problem. It's just a problem. A serious one that needs to be addressed and solved.
If doing the Time Warp Again with a Sweet Transvestite from Transsexual, Transylvania (any other Rocky Horror Picture Show fans? :)) helps to accomplish this then so be it.
I don't care who gets the blame or who gets the applause, I'm just concerned with solving the problems.
Ride Safe. Dr.Tramp.............
 

· Glockin’ since 1993
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51,479 Posts
True but all the more reason to step away from those groups and individuals on both sides of the firearms debate/argument that are currently getting all the attention and start our own groups and create our own ideas for solutions.
Start by stop wasting time and energy attempting to assign blame by arguing and pointing fingers and instead concentrate on the actual problems and possible solutions.
It's not a Republican-Democrat-black-white-liberal-conservative-gay-straight-whatever-whoever problem. It's just a problem. A serious one that needs to be addressed and solved.
If doing the Time Warp Again with a Sweet Transvestite from Transsexual, Transylvania (Rocky Horror Picture Show) helps to accomplish this then so be it.
I don't care who gets the blame or who gets the applause, I'm just concerned with solving the problems.
Ride Safe. Dr.Tramp.............
Rational? We can’t have that! Hyperbole wins the day!😉
 

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Discussion Starter · #137 · (Edited)
"we already lost the conversation" Please explain this.
Personally I prefer honesty over sugar coating things with better sounding - politically correct labels. I'd much rather hear an unpleasant truth over a pleasant sounding lie.
We get plenty of pleasant sounding lies from politicians and media talking heads which I believe is part of why we as a nation and society are experiencing many of our current problems.
We are told and have been programmed to accept pleasant sounding lies to evade the unpleasant realities of our failing education system, lack of health care, lack of preparation for looming climate changes, incompetent and venal politicians, and more.
So how about we be honest about at least one thing okay? The US has problems involving firearms.
By honestly addressing these problems maybe we can solve, eliminate, or at least lessen them.
Ride Safe. Dr.Tramp................
What I meant was that by referring to it as a “firearm problem”, everyone involved in the conversation is going to see firearms as the root cause of the problem, and will ignore the real issues.
Firearms are NOT the problem. As I mentioned before, the problem lies, among other things, in the decline of society as a whole and the complete disregard of the rule of law.
The US does NOT have a problem involving firearms. Criminals will use anything (cars, knives, baseball bats, bare hands, firearms, anything) to hurt others. Blaming the tool used is not going to address the problem.
 

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Discussion Starter · #138 ·
….
We get plenty of pleasant sounding lies from politicians and media talking heads which I believe is part of why we as a nation and society are experiencing many of our current problems.
We are told and have been programmed to accept pleasant sounding lies to evade the unpleasant realities of our failing education system, lack of health care, lack of preparation for looming climate changes, incompetent and venal politicians, and more.
….

You hit the nail on the head there. Those are our real problems.
 
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