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· Glockin’ since 1993
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That's interesting, thanks for posting.

This morning there was an article in the Washington Post about Utopia, a small town in Texas, not too far from Uvalde (44 miles according to google maps). See link below.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/06/27/armed-teachers-texas-uvalde-permit/

Utopia is very rural, and if there were a school shooting incident, it would take law enforcement probably half an hour to even get to the school, which is a long time.

So after Sandy Hook in 2012 the school board allowed teachers to arm themselves, after completing the program for a carry concealed weapon. Apparently several teachers did, which is consistent with your experience.

“When you live out like this, you have to take care of yourself,” said Karen Heideman, Utopia Independent School District’s longtime business manager. She is working to get a permit so she can carry a firearm to work. “You can’t just dial nine-eleven and expect to have a policeman here in less than five minutes.”

To me that makes perfect sense. I live in Oakland and if there is a shooting incident and we call 911, the OPD will arrive within one or two minutes. We've had situations in our building, most recently some nutcase finding his way into one of the apartments and threatening the tenants with a screwdriver. At least half a dozen OPD squad cars showed up in no time to secure the building and after a stand-off of several, arrest the suspect.

The practical problem for teachers willing to arm themselves, is $$$ and time - it takes time to go through the program, and taking classes is not free.
You have to find time to do things. There are people and organizations donating to the cause. If a teacher is interested it’s relatively inexpensive at this point.
 

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Discussion Starter · #102 ·
How do you prevent mental timebombs like that from getting their hands on guns?
We can try all we want, but the only thing regulations do is take from law-abiding citizens.
The only way to stop criminals is to arm teachers and the entire community to transform today’s “gun free zones” into “we protect our children and our people” zones.
You don’t see any “crazy” guy entering a police station to shoot people, right? They are not that crazy.
Let them know we are armed and ready and they will think twice before trying anything.
 

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What an idiot!
In addition to guns I keep in my gun safe;
Passports, vehicle titles, house deed, important papers, jewelry and emergency cash.
Yes, same here!
 

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"how can we keep guns out of the hands of nutcases that plan to go a shooting spree in schools, churches, etc.?"
How about applying analytic thought to the problem? First step; identify the problem, which in this case means realizing and admitting that there are actually two types of problems with firearms in the US. They overlap but are different.
There are the actions of criminals and crazies with firearms which result in crimes, deaths, and injuries and are usually intentional.
Then there are the actions of legal but untrained or poorly trained individuals with firearms which result in crimes, deaths, and injuries and are usually unintentional.
The problems cannot be solved by lumping them together and attempting to create a one size fits all solution. Nor can they be solved unless and until responsible firearm owners take an active part in the problem solving process.
Ride Safe. Dr.Tramp..................

PS: I didn't want to divert the discussion so responded to your comment on education with a PM.
 

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"how can we keep guns out of the hands of nutcases that plan to go a shooting spree in schools, churches, etc.?"
How about applying analytic thought to the problem? First step; identify the problem, which in this case means realizing and admitting that there are actually two types of problems with firearms in the US. They overlap but are different.
There are the actions of criminals and crazies with firearms which result in crimes, deaths, and injuries and are usually intentional.
Then there are the actions of legal but untrained or poorly trained individuals with firearms which result in crimes, deaths, and injuries and are usually unintentional.
The problems cannot be solved by lumping them together and attempting to create a one size fits all solution. Nor can they be solved unless and until responsible firearm owners take an active part in the problem solving process.
Ride Safe. Dr.Tramp..................

PS: I didn't want to divert the discussion so responded to your comment on education with a PM.
I agree - though there are actually three types of people who should not have access to guns:

1. Criminals
2. Untrained idiots (parents leaving guns outside safes etc)
3. Mentally unstable people who are legally able to purchase guns. Think of Uvalde but there are so many more examples.
 

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I agree - though there are actually three types of people who should not have access to guns:

1. Criminals
2. Untrained idiots (parents leaving guns outside safes etc)
3. Mentally unstable people who are legally able to purchase guns. Think of Uvalde but there are so many more examples.
1. Criminals even with lying shouldn't be able to pass a 4473. They will obtain guns illegally.
2. Untrained idiots they will pass the 4473 so how would you recommend stopping them?
3. Mentally unstable unless declared by the courts they still pass the 4473 think Uvalde and Buffalo.
 

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To address the illegal side of the problem. There are already a multitude of laws and regulations that are "suppose" to keep criminals and crazies (mentally unstable if you wish to be politically correct) from obtaining firearms but criminals rarely buy their firearms legally and even when someone is officially listed as a crazy, like the young man in Buffalo, flaws in the existing system and the unwillingness of different law enforcement agencies to share information with each other allow them to slip through the cracks and legally obtain firearms. Or if they are flagged by the system and denied a legal purchase they obtain them illegally, as has been the case in several other shootings.
The young man in Uvalde though not officially listed as a crazy was considered unstable by those who knew him and had been brought to the attention of authorities but nothing was done about him. In this case it was not a failure of the firearm regulating system but a lack of a real health care system in the US.
To address the legal side of the problem there is a simple initial step. Require all people that want to buy a firearm from a licensed dealer to show that they have completed a comprehensive firearms safety and shooting course before they can do so.
As I said these problems will not be solved by more of the same laws that have already proven ineffective and by attempting to create magic silver bullet one size fits all solution.
In actuality though I honestly think that many of both the anti and pro firearms groups and politicians don't really want to solve these problems.
Instead they prefer them to continue so that they can continue to have their names in the spotlight and continue to gather all those dollars in contributions.
Ride Safe. Dr.Tramp...............
 

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Hide your cash in a box of teabags in the pantry. Thieves never steal the box of teabags.
Cash? At these inflation rates it’ll be gone when you go to take it out anyways.
 
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...Require all people that want to buy a firearm from a licensed dealer to show that they have completed a comprehensive firearms safety and shooting course before they can do so.
Ride Safe. Dr.Tramp...............
I would agree with the good Dr. Tramp, but would add the caveat that firearms safety should be added to the school curriculum. You could shoot both handguns and rifles when I was in high school, and could take rifle courses as a PE elective. We were taught a healthy respect for firearms, and we had NO issues with guns being used for violence. Of course, we all carried knives, but no one was stabbing each other either. Perhaps it has nothing to do with weapons, and everything to do with cultural rot.
 

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I would agree with the good Dr. Tramp, but would add the caveat that firearms safety should be added to the school curriculum. You could shoot both handguns and rifles when I was in high school, and could take rifle courses as a PE elective. We were taught a healthy respect for firearms, and we had NO issues with guns being used for violence. Of course, we all carried knives, but no one was stabbing each other either. Perhaps it has nothing to do with weapons, and everything to do with cultural rot.
I would take the idea a step further and encourage and allow parents to participate in the school sponsored courses with their kids and encourage businesses to sponsor firearm safety courses for their employees.
All strictly voluntary but presented and encouraged very positively.
Ride Safe. Dr.Tramp..................
 

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Once we acknowledge that we do not have a firearm problem, but a society degradation problem instead, we will be better positioned to logically work on a solution.
Bingo,morality can't be legislated.
 

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To address the legal side of the problem there is a simple initial step. Require all people that want to buy a firearm from a licensed dealer to show that they have completed a comprehensive firearms safety and shooting course before they can do so.
That is actually a really good idea. Even here in California to purchase a fire arm you only have to pass a background check, wait 10 days, and unless you're a felon you are good to go. The firearms dealer actually has to have you go through a basic test but that is so basic ... it's basically demonstrating that you are able to insert a magazine, release the magazine, and release any cartridges from the chamber by pulling the slide. Takes maybe two minutes.

I am a gun owner now but I can tell you that even after watching dozens of youtube videos and dry firing hundreds of snap caps I do not feel comfortable enough so I signed up with a full day gun safety course with a certified instruction on July 10 (all day, including several hours at a range).
 

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It will do nothing to prevent someone bent on murder and passed by idiots on a tyrannical bent.
However they can claim they did something that will do nothing but at least they did something.:mad:
Same as always. 23,000 gun laws that are rarely used, or criminals are prosecuted with.

We did something, but those republicans would not let us make a true gun safety bill!
 

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"That is actually a really good idea"
As I said it would be an initial step but something that could be built upon because it's "Common Sense".
Responsible firearm owners have many such "common sense" ideas that could be applied to the firearms problems but we're never included in the firearms debate.
Unfortunate, since contrary to the way firearm owners are usually portrayed by anti firearm individuals and groups we're as concerned with the firearms problems in the US as any other thinking citizen; perhaps even more so because we're the ones getting blamed for them.
Ride Safe. Dr.Tramp..............
 
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