Glock Forum banner
81 - 100 of 1009 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
211 Posts
I do agree with you. If these places were not gun free zones the shooters may not go in the first place. More gun free zones means more places for mass shootings. So again the new laws still do nothing.
Then reinvent the law, and make it legal nationwide, for principals to have guns, locked in a safe, and ready to use.

PS: make it legal for the principal to take that gun home every night, so that crooks don’t burglarize the school.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
739 Posts
Hypothetical?

Look at what happened, the cops stood around with their thumbs up their butt cracks.
I am not considering the things that have failed, so much as looking at things that will succeed.
The whole thing was a disgrace upon the people and nation.
Disgraceful indeed, totally agree with you.

I'm not sure whether arming school administrators or teachers for that matter will help though, for a couple of reasons: 1. it's not their job to provide security on top of everything else they are already doing; 2. they are not trained for that; 3. they are not getting paid nearly enough to ask them to stock up on ammunition and invest in training courses.

Uvalde school district had a security plan, and a budget that was doubled in recent years. And yet here we are.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
739 Posts
Here's an interesting youtube by a guy who was in special forces and has been an arms instructor for decades. His point is

1. We should not force teachers to carry guns, but at the same time
2. We should allow teachers who wish to, to carry (ie no compulsory gun free zones)

That makes perfect sense to me.

 

· Glockin’ since 1993
Joined
·
51,479 Posts
Disgraceful indeed, totally agree with you.

I'm not sure whether arming school administrators or teachers for that matter will help though, for a couple of reasons: 1. it's not their job to provide security on top of everything else they are already doing; 2. they are not trained for that; 3. they are not getting paid nearly enough to ask them to stock up on ammunition and invest in training courses.

Uvalde school district had a security plan, and a budget that was doubled in recent years. And yet here we are.
The teacher unions and antigunners are using the points you listed.
Truth is the programs that have been set up in my part of Texas are voluntary. There is free training being provided by law enforcement and donated by trainers and training facilities.
I believe most teachers don’t do their job for the money but because it’s a calling, not unlike a number of professions.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
739 Posts
The teacher unions and antigunners are using the points you listed.
Truth is the programs that have been set up in my part of Texas are voluntary. There is free training being provided by law enforcement and donated by trainers and training facilities.
I believe most teachers don’t do their job for the money but because it’s a calling, not unlike a number of professions.
My dad was a teacher, and so we were several of my aunts. They didn't become teachers to get rich, for sure. They just love to teach children. It was a calling.

They were teachers in my country of birth, the Netherlands. The US is completely different from the Netherlands.

So how does this practically work in your part of Texas. If you're a teacher, and you voluntarily go through the program etc., are you allowed as a Texas teacher to concealed carry a firearm, going into the school? Or does the local law and 'gun free zones' rules prevent you from carrying a gun into the school?
 

· Registered
Joined
·
211 Posts
Disgraceful indeed, totally agree with you.

I'm not sure whether arming school administrators or teachers for that matter will help though, for a couple of reasons: 1. it's not their job to provide security on top of everything else they are already doing; 2. they are not trained for that; 3. they are not getting paid nearly enough to ask them to stock up on ammunition and invest in training courses.

Uvalde school district had a security plan, and a budget that was doubled in recent years. And yet here we are.
Let the ones that want to be armed, be trained to use a pistol. It has nothing to do with what a teachers job is, it has to do with fighting back. Any teacher that wants to carry a gun, should be allowed to keep it in their car, in a gun safe.

There should be a federal program for them, paid for by their state, to train them secretly. A Glock and ammo doesn't cost that much, in the bigger scheme of things.

Any mention of a security plan at Uvalde being in place, is strangely implausible. And the cops who responded, should be investigated by the state. Some jail time might be in order.
 

· Glockin’ since 1993
Joined
·
51,479 Posts
My dad was a teacher, and so we were several of my aunts. They didn't become teachers to get rich, for sure. They just love to teach children. It was a calling.

They were teachers in my country of birth, the Netherlands. The US is completely different from the Netherlands.

So how does this practically work in your part of Texas. If you're a teacher, and you voluntarily go through the program etc., are you allowed as a Texas teacher to concealed carry a firearm, going into the school? Or does the local law and 'gun free zones' rules prevent you from carrying a gun into the school?
The state made it up to individual school districts to adopt or not programs that arm teachers.
Here is the text of the law;

School Marshal

HB 1009, passed by the 83rd legislature, allows public school districts and open enrollment charter schools to appoint School Marshals. The 84th legislature passed SB 386 to include Public two year junior colleges in the list of institutions that can appoint School Marshals. The 85th legislature passed HB 867, which allows private schools to appoint School Marshals.
The sole purpose of a School Marshal is to prevent the act of murder or serious bodily injury on school premises, and act only as defined by the written regulations adopted by the School Board/Governing Body.
After making application with the Texas Commission on Law Enforcement, a qualifying institution must send the candidate to an 80 hour training course, conducted by a law enforcement academy that has been specifically prepared to provide the school marshal curriculum. Among the topics covered in the School Marshal course are: physical security, improving the security of the campus, use of force, active shooter response, and weapon proficiency. No other course can be substituted or exempt an individual from the specific school marshal training course.
Appointing Entity Information
The Appointing Entity will be the School Board/Governing Body of a Public School, Open Enrollment Charter School, or a Public two Year Junior College.
Process to appoint a school marshal:
1. Appointing Entity must submit the completed Appointing Entity Number Application to TCOLE. This form designates all authorized signatures on forms and paperwork to follow. (Provided upon request).
2. Appointing Entity selects candidate(s) for School Marshal.
  • Candidate(s) must be an employee(s) of the school or college.
  • Candidate(s) must hold a valid License to Carry, issued through the Texas Department of Public Safety. (Copy submitted to TCOLE).
  • Candidate(s) must pass a psychological exam (TCOLE will provide this form).
  • Candidate(s) attends/completes TCOLE approved 80 hour School Marshal course.
3. Appointing Entity submits School Marshal Appointment Form and Fee. Once approved, a School Marshal license will issue to the candidate(s). He or she will be authorized to act as a School Marshal, per the written regulations adopted by the School Board/Governing Body.


—————————————————————
Now I will tell you this law has been praised and condemned by both sides of the argument. Unions and media having a left viewpoint claim no teachers are interested. That’s not true as I’ve talked to a few teachers that are interested in the program. A few school districts have started programs and the Uvalde shooting has convinced some other schools to sign on.
A similar program is happening in churches as well. I work security in churches and popularity in that program varies depending on location, parishioner makeup and other variables.
 

· Banned
Joined
·
995 Posts
"They were teachers in my country of birth, the Netherlands. The US is completely different from the Netherlands"
You definitely got that right. The education systems in the Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, and most of the rest of western Europe are so much better and more advanced that the US education system that they really can't be compared.
I worked as an instructor at the MMI (Motorcycle Mechanics Institute) Phoenix campus for several years and it was truly disheartening to see how uneducated and unprepared the students just out of high school were.
Ride Safe. Dr.Tramp................
 

· Registered
Joined
·
739 Posts
I’d sure like to have a gun safe, but I simply don’t have the room in my house at this time. Once my 2 son’s leave the nest I’ll be able to get one then.
I have an Awesafe gunsafe for $150 from Amazon. Easy to use with biometric fingerprint, number combination and keylock in case everything else fails (or the batteries die). Plenty of room for my Glock 17. If you have several handguns and rifles you'll need something bigger though.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
739 Posts
"They were teachers in my country of birth, the Netherlands. The US is completely different from the Netherlands"
You definitely got that right. The education systems in the Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, and most of the rest of western Europe are so much better and more advanced that the US education system that they really can't be compared.
I worked as an instructor at the MMI (Motorcycle Mechanics Institute) Phoenix campus for several years and it was truly disheartening to see how uneducated and unprepared the students just out of high school were.
Ride Safe. Dr.Tramp................
That is an interesting discussion. I can't compare the high school system in Europe to the high school system in the US. Way back when I went to high school in the 1970s and 1980s you could go to university depending on what type of high school diploma you got. I don't know whether it has changed, but back then you had to have a 'atheneum' or 'gymnasium' degree. Gymnasium had nothing to do with a sports, it was a type of high school track that included Latin and Greek languages. Then when you graduated age 18 you either had to serve in the miltary (if you were a male) for 1 to 2 years or you went straight to university. Back then there was still a draft or conscription. I was not drafted because the military because they had enough guys of my particular age. No college! Might sound strange but that's the way it was, and maybe still is. When you are 18 you have to make up your mind what you're going to be -- lawyer, doctor, engineer, mechanic. I went to conservatory of music and law school and finished both within the 6 years allotted. Since my parents were middle class income, I got a partial scholarschip from the state. I ended up with two degrees, one as classical guitar teacher, and one as lawyer. And a small student debt of maybe a few thousand guilders (can't remember) which I paid off in a few years. Got a great job and had a good career.

My pet peeve with the US educational system, and college in particular, is that it is so EXPENSIVE $$$$. Law school graduates here can have hundreds of thousands of dollars in student debt ... how on earth are you going to pay that back unless you land a job with a major law firm where you work 100 hours per week?!
 

· Registered
Joined
·
739 Posts
Silly fact, but gun laws only affect the law abiding.
Yes and no. Criminals will find a way to get their hands on guns, sure.

But the real question is: how can we keep guns out of the hands of nutcases that plan to go a shooting spree in schools, churches, etc.? That guy in Uvalde had no criminal record. He was a law abiding citizen until the morning he walked into a school and started killing kids.

If you go back at look his personal history, there were certainly red flags about his mental state of mind. How do you prevent mental timebombs like that from getting their hands on guns?
 

· Registered
Joined
·
739 Posts
The state made it up to individual school districts to adopt or not programs that arm teachers.
Here is the text of the law;

School Marshal

HB 1009, passed by the 83rd legislature, allows public school districts and open enrollment charter schools to appoint School Marshals. The 84th legislature passed SB 386 to include Public two year junior colleges in the list of institutions that can appoint School Marshals. The 85th legislature passed HB 867, which allows private schools to appoint School Marshals.
The sole purpose of a School Marshal is to prevent the act of murder or serious bodily injury on school premises, and act only as defined by the written regulations adopted by the School Board/Governing Body.
After making application with the Texas Commission on Law Enforcement, a qualifying institution must send the candidate to an 80 hour training course, conducted by a law enforcement academy that has been specifically prepared to provide the school marshal curriculum. Among the topics covered in the School Marshal course are: physical security, improving the security of the campus, use of force, active shooter response, and weapon proficiency. No other course can be substituted or exempt an individual from the specific school marshal training course.
Appointing Entity Information
The Appointing Entity will be the School Board/Governing Body of a Public School, Open Enrollment Charter School, or a Public two Year Junior College.
Process to appoint a school marshal:
1. Appointing Entity must submit the completed Appointing Entity Number Application to TCOLE. This form designates all authorized signatures on forms and paperwork to follow. (Provided upon request).
2. Appointing Entity selects candidate(s) for School Marshal.
  • Candidate(s) must be an employee(s) of the school or college.
  • Candidate(s) must hold a valid License to Carry, issued through the Texas Department of Public Safety. (Copy submitted to TCOLE).
  • Candidate(s) must pass a psychological exam (TCOLE will provide this form).
  • Candidate(s) attends/completes TCOLE approved 80 hour School Marshal course.
3. Appointing Entity submits School Marshal Appointment Form and Fee. Once approved, a School Marshal license will issue to the candidate(s). He or she will be authorized to act as a School Marshal, per the written regulations adopted by the School Board/Governing Body.


—————————————————————
Now I will tell you this law has been praised and condemned by both sides of the argument. Unions and media having a left viewpoint claim no teachers are interested. That’s not true as I’ve talked to a few teachers that are interested in the program. A few school districts have started programs and the Uvalde shooting has convinced some other schools to sign on.
A similar program is happening in churches as well. I work security in churches and popularity in that program varies depending on location, parishioner makeup and other variables.
That's interesting, thanks for posting.

This morning there was an article in the Washington Post about Utopia, a small town in Texas, not too far from Uvalde (44 miles according to google maps). See link below.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/06/27/armed-teachers-texas-uvalde-permit/

Utopia is very rural, and if there were a school shooting incident, it would take law enforcement probably half an hour to even get to the school, which is a long time.

So after Sandy Hook in 2012 the school board allowed teachers to arm themselves, after completing the program for a carry concealed weapon. Apparently several teachers did, which is consistent with your experience.

“When you live out like this, you have to take care of yourself,” said Karen Heideman, Utopia Independent School District’s longtime business manager. She is working to get a permit so she can carry a firearm to work. “You can’t just dial nine-eleven and expect to have a policeman here in less than five minutes.”

To me that makes perfect sense. I live in Oakland and if there is a shooting incident and we call 911, the OPD will arrive within one or two minutes. We've had situations in our building, most recently some nutcase finding his way into one of the apartments and threatening the tenants with a screwdriver. At least half a dozen OPD squad cars showed up in no time to secure the building and after a stand-off of several, arrest the suspect.

The practical problem for teachers willing to arm themselves, is $$$ and time - it takes time to go through the program, and taking classes is not free.
 

· Glockin’ since 1993
Joined
·
51,479 Posts
Yes and no. Criminals will find a way to get their hands on guns, sure.

But the real question is: how can we keep guns out of the hands of nutcases that plan to go a shooting spree in schools, churches, etc.? That guy in Uvalde had no criminal record. He was a law abiding citizen until the morning he walked into a school and started killing kids.

If you go back at look his personal history, there were certainly red flags about his mental state of mind. How do you prevent mental timebombs like that from getting their hands on guns?
So we’ve had high capacity weapons available to the public for 100 years yet the mass killing incidents are more of a recent phenomenon. Why? If anything it was easier to access guns with no background checks, restrictions or paperwork prior to the late 1960’s.
 
81 - 100 of 1009 Posts
Top