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Blackmagic02 said:
Kind of interesting that some of the biggest manufacturer's are in some of the most restrictive States.
I think most of those companies have been around long before most of the restrictions were ever in place. If it were my company I would have moved years ago.
 

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If the law does pass and microstamping is mandated, think of this:
Anyone at a gun range can pick up your brass, and drop it at a crime scene. How is this protecting innocent lives???
 

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It's just another ridiculous ruse thought up by the gun grabbers to put up roadblocks in our exercising of 2A right. I've stated in this forum elsewhere. A number of pro-2A states would love to have these manufacturers in their state. I believe West Virginia made an appealing offer to Navy Arms to build there after being beaten up in NJ all these years.I wondered why Kimber set up shop in Yonkers NY of all places. I know if Remington, Colt or whoever wanted to move here in Texas it would be a huge event. The Government would celebrate it and boast with pride instead of being a dirty secret looked down upon like in the North Eastern states.
 

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Micro stamping would be as successful as the gun "DNA" database in NY. Not one crime solved with it. Even Cuomo got that and de-funded it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Wow. Good comments and food for thought.

I would move my plant also.

I hadn't even considered the spent brass from range angle.

I suppose the NYPD could use it to recover their spent brass. They do seem to generate a lot of it.

I guess the revolver would become the new murder weapon of choice up there.

And being a micro-stamp it does seem like just a little filing would make it illegible without negatively impacting the firing pin.
 

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And what would stop a criminal from sanding, grinding, or somehow just defacing the firing pin?
Or buying a new $10 firing pin/striker with no requirement to identify what gun it'll be going into. The whole thing is a joke.
 

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CountryMick said:
Or buying a new $10 firing pin/striker with no requirement to identify what gun it'll be going into. The whole thing is a joke.
And how can you stand in the way of reasonable gun control? It'll solve numerous crimes. How's Maryland's spent casing database working out? How much did that cost the taxpayers? How many crimes have been solved specifically based on the casings left at the scene of the crime? The legislators that propose and ram these laws down our throats should be held to account and run out of town.
 

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After reading everyone's comments, there are numerous angles to the story I haven't thought of. I'm all for solving crime, but if it causes some sort of grief for law abiding citizens I believe it's a stretch. Picking up brass at the range form another gun is a bit of a stretch but the paranoia would be there. All of these ideas really prove that laser stamping the pin would be a waste of everyone's time.
Next thing you'll know you'll have to start registering how much ammunition you have... Each box with a serial number! That day scares the hell out of me. I hope for future generations sake that will never happen.
 

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Not only would the paranoia be there but any Lawyer worth their salt would raise it as a defense. It would also be impossible to require the 60 million+ guns out there already. Stupid is as Stupid Does! Just more stupidity from People who know 0 About guns making laws!:mad:

After reading everyone's comments, there are numerous angles to the story I haven't thought of. I'm all for solving crime, but if it causes some sort of grief for law abiding citizens I believe it's a stretch. Picking up brass at the range form another gun is a bit of a stretch but the paranoia would be there. All of these ideas really prove that laser stamping the pin would be a waste of everyone's time.
Next thing you'll know you'll have to start registering how much ammunition you have... Each box with a serial number! That day scares the hell out of me. I hope for future generations sake that will never happen.
 

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Additional arguments in opposition to microstamping

I was unable to post this response to the original article posted by Fox news so I sent it to the news desk.

In addition to all the other arguments in opposition to micro stamping such as it is failed technology, altering or replacing the firing pin, brass from gun ranges, to expensive for firearm manufacturers I am writing to add additional arguments in opposition to micro-stamping that I believe are significant and have been overlooked.

I am a retired Police Officer now employed as a Forensic Firearm Examiner. During my law enforcement career I have investigated a number of shooting related crimes. Most if not all of these crimes are committed by career criminals and gangs engaging in unlawful activity. I have never had the opportunity to arrest a licensed gun owner for misuse of a firearm. As a Forensic Firearm Examiner I have examined many firearms and have given opinion testimony in Court regarding firearm examination. Having investigated many aspects of crimes involving firearms I would like to add the following:

Micro stamping is being presented as a supplement or augmentation to tool mark identification. It’s clear based on the past scientific research conducted by forensic tool mark examiners, there are various ways different ammunition interacts with different firearms. Because of these variables, micro stamping technology is not capable of producing a readable make, model, and serial number on every fired cartridge case.

Much more importantly, the focus of an investigation in an assault with a firearm is the shooter not the gun. Law enforcement does not need to recover the responsible firearm to arrest someone for illegal use of a firearm. In cases where the police find the responsible firearm, they still have to put that gun in the shooters hand at the time of the offense. Micro-stamping will not do that. All micro stamping will do (assuming the technology works) is generate manufacturer information for the firearm.

All legitimate, responsible gun owner’s purchase firearms from legitimate gun stores. This means that there is a considerable amount of documentation and information regarding the owner and the manufacture information of the firearm. Some elected officials are trying to get people to believe that the documentation and information recorded from these legitimate gun sales will help the police arrest criminals using guns during crimes. This could not be farther from the truth.

Unfortunately, career criminals and gangs do not purchase firearms by legitimate means. They have to obtain firearms and ammunition from illegitimate means (stolen or undocumented). This means there is NO documentation or information about the illegal possession or use of a firearm. Micro stamping will not change that.

Therefore the information that law enforcement investigators will glean from micro stamping will not really give us any additional information to solve crimes involving firearms. It can not tell us anything about the illegitimate use of a firearm by someone who obtained the firearm on the street. Most importantly, micro stamping will not make our streets any safer.

Micro stamping is no different than the “New Gun data base” that exists or previously existed in NY State and Maryland. Millions of dollars was spent on a computer system, its operation, and its maintenance, that can compare fired cartridge cases recovered from a crime scene to a fired cartridge case from a new firearm legally sold to a licensed firearm owner. It is my understanding that this “new gun database” that has been in use for more than 10 years has not solved one crime!

Just to be clear there is an excellent ballistic database in use by crime labs all over this country using traditional proven forensic tool mark methodologies that successfully link crime scene to crime scene and guns to crime scenes. The reason why this database is so successful is because the focus of the link is the time date and location of the incident rather than the manufacture information of the firearm.

Elected officials who truly believe that micro stamping can make our communities safer need to be educated on how law enforcement investigate crimes involving firearms and what value the firearm manufacturer information has in that process. It is appalling to me to think that an elected official would attempt to misrepresent the facts about micro stamping and its potential to his/her constituents in an effort to get it passed.

This bill mandating micro stamping will create more work for state and municipal employees to maintain record keeping and to create additional databases of legitimate firearm owners while the criminals remain stealth. Do we really need more inefficient use of our tax paid resources?

As an alternative, elected officials should calculate how much more it would cost government municipalities to implement micro stamping and use that money for equipment and training for law enforcement investigators and forensic analysts.

It is my opinion based on my previously stated qualifications, the above information, and as a law biding responsible gun owner, that micro stamping on firearms will not be a useful tool in solving crime involving firearms and most importantly, will not make our communities safer.
 

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Great response I doubt it will be published...
 

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Just like I said about California's assault gun ban. Its not about solving crimes it's about F'ing with gun owners.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I was unable to post this response to the original article posted by Fox news so I sent it to the news desk.

In addition to all the other arguments in opposition to micro stamping such as it is failed technology, altering or replacing the firing pin, brass from gun ranges, to expensive for firearm manufacturers I am writing to add additional arguments in opposition to micro-stamping that I believe are significant and have been overlooked.

I am a retired Police Officer now employed as a Forensic Firearm Examiner. During my law enforcement career I have investigated a number of shooting related crimes. Most if not all of these crimes are committed by career criminals and gangs engaging in unlawful activity. I have never had the opportunity to arrest a licensed gun owner for misuse of a firearm. As a Forensic Firearm Examiner I have examined many firearms and have given opinion testimony in Court regarding firearm examination. Having investigated many aspects of crimes involving firearms I would like to add the following:

Micro stamping is being presented as a supplement or augmentation to tool mark identification. It’s clear based on the past scientific research conducted by forensic tool mark examiners, there are various ways different ammunition interacts with different firearms. Because of these variables, micro stamping technology is not capable of producing a readable make, model, and serial number on every fired cartridge case.

Much more importantly, the focus of an investigation in an assault with a firearm is the shooter not the gun. Law enforcement does not need to recover the responsible firearm to arrest someone for illegal use of a firearm. In cases where the police find the responsible firearm, they still have to put that gun in the shooters hand at the time of the offense. Micro-stamping will not do that. All micro stamping will do (assuming the technology works) is generate manufacturer information for the firearm.

All legitimate, responsible gun owner’s purchase firearms from legitimate gun stores. This means that there is a considerable amount of documentation and information regarding the owner and the manufacture information of the firearm. Some elected officials are trying to get people to believe that the documentation and information recorded from these legitimate gun sales will help the police arrest criminals using guns during crimes. This could not be farther from the truth.

Unfortunately, career criminals and gangs do not purchase firearms by legitimate means. They have to obtain firearms and ammunition from illegitimate means (stolen or undocumented). This means there is NO documentation or information about the illegal possession or use of a firearm. Micro stamping will not change that.

Therefore the information that law enforcement investigators will glean from micro stamping will not really give us any additional information to solve crimes involving firearms. It can not tell us anything about the illegitimate use of a firearm by someone who obtained the firearm on the street. Most importantly, micro stamping will not make our streets any safer.

Micro stamping is no different than the “New Gun data base” that exists or previously existed in NY State and Maryland. Millions of dollars was spent on a computer system, its operation, and its maintenance, that can compare fired cartridge cases recovered from a crime scene to a fired cartridge case from a new firearm legally sold to a licensed firearm owner. It is my understanding that this “new gun database” that has been in use for more than 10 years has not solved one crime!

Just to be clear there is an excellent ballistic database in use by crime labs all over this country using traditional proven forensic tool mark methodologies that successfully link crime scene to crime scene and guns to crime scenes. The reason why this database is so successful is because the focus of the link is the time date and location of the incident rather than the manufacture information of the firearm.

Elected officials who truly believe that micro stamping can make our communities safer need to be educated on how law enforcement investigate crimes involving firearms and what value the firearm manufacturer information has in that process. It is appalling to me to think that an elected official would attempt to misrepresent the facts about micro stamping and its potential to his/her constituents in an effort to get it passed.

This bill mandating micro stamping will create more work for state and municipal employees to maintain record keeping and to create additional databases of legitimate firearm owners while the criminals remain stealth. Do we really need more inefficient use of our tax paid resources?

As an alternative, elected officials should calculate how much more it would cost government municipalities to implement micro stamping and use that money for equipment and training for law enforcement investigators and forensic analysts.

It is my opinion based on my previously stated qualifications, the above information, and as a law biding responsible gun owner, that micro stamping on firearms will not be a useful tool in solving crime involving firearms and most importantly, will not make our communities safer.
Very well put. I appreciate your perspective on this issue and agree completely. Like the others I doubt the media would.:(
 
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