Lesson in Competency for Concealed Carry Citizens

Discussion in 'Conceal & Open Carry' started by CDR_Glock, Jan 6, 2012.

  1. CDR_Glock

    CDR_Glock Well-Known Member

    I have shot pistols since I became old enough to own a firearm. I had safety courses and numerous discussions with law enforcement friends and some genuine prior Navy SEALs (many claim to be SEALs, and are not. That is dishonorable).

    The story:
    I had a friend who had a concealed carry license. In fact, he has always carried his Springfield XD or a Ruger LCR. It was he, who had convinced me to get my Concealed Weapons License in Florida. That license allowed me to carry and conceal any legal weapon, as outlined by Florida Statutes (pistols, knives of any length, automatic knives and even Balisongs).

    One day, my friend invited me to go to the range. I told him, I would like to watch his technique. From the 5 and 7 yard mark, he did not hit the black with his XD. In fact, he missed the target paper entirely on numerous occasions. I looked at his technique, the method of how he held the pistol, his stance, his method of aim and the latent nature of how he sighted the target and then shot. I have to say that I thank God I came with him that day. He also said that the Ruger LCR doesn't shoot that well, either.

    I tend to have a lack of restraint when I talk to folks which has offended more than a handful of people. I lightly touched him on the shoulder, after him shooting the XD, followed by the LCR, and he stood back, placing the firearm back onto the table.

    "That was terrible!" I said. "You cannot possibly expect to carry a pistol, let alone hit an intended target the way you're shooting that thing. Stand back and I will demonstrate a few things." I proceeded to hit a tight group in the center and set his gun down. I wanted to test the firearm before I made my case. "It's not the LCR, Brother. It's you! You need to work on some things before you ever decide to carry again."

    "Ok", my friend said.

    We worked during the session focusing upon dry firing while we ensured that he had some proper fundamentals such as stance, balance, grip, grip pressure, trigger techniques, aiming, cadence, control, breathing, etc. Upon the conclusion of dry firing, I said, "Ok, let's see how things go this time".

    He proceeded to fire all 5 shots into the black than the haphazard mess that he demonstrated just a few moments before. I said, "Much better. I feel safer that you can actually aim and shoot. However, there are many things to learn still."

    Over the next few months, he and I went to the range and shot. We practiced controlled pairs, strong handed technique, weak handed technique, shooting different targets, etc. He became competent but he's still far from what I considered "Safe" or "Good to Go". I moved away, and I check on him from time to time. I advised him to take some basic and intermediate courses, as well as tactical-oriented classes.

    My point and then some:

    1) Owning a gun doesn't impart magical powers. You still need to develop the foundation to shoot. Targets don't shoot back. You need to be able to shoot and adapt to a situation to win the game of survival. You need to be able to shoot under pressure. Shoot while moving, shoot while prone, whatever.

    2) Concealed carry takes a level of responsibility that goes beyond the basic techniques. One must prepare for many different scenarios and be able to shoot in a methodical manner. Your course in Concealed Firearms courses gives guidelines on WHERE to carry. In most cases, it doesn't cover HOW TO CARRY. In almost all cases it never covers WHEN TO DRAW AND FIRE IN SELF DEFENSE. Educate yourself on the laws of concealed carry. Educate yourself in the laws of self defense. Learn in courses (live or DVD) or through reading to ingrain your situational awareness of the environment.

    3) Concealed carry does not mean you've just lowered your threshold to justify deadly force. You must live to a higher standard. You must make the opportunity to educate yourself. Take a course from an expert about legal aspects of WHEN to shoot.

    4) Disregard misconceptions and myths. There are a lot to deal with. Believe me, I've been reading the same kind of things perpetuated on a weekly basis on numerous gun and knife forums. Who knows, I may have propagated some myself, early in my own training/life/experience. Learn the facts. Understand the controversy of our rights to bear arms, our privilege to carry, our obligation to learn and improve, and our duty to protect our self or our loved one.

    I do not claim to be an expert. I am a student in the game of survival. There is much to learn given my relatively newer entry into this lifestyle. I suggest you determine the path of learning to incorporate all aspects to be a safer citizen and safer family member or loved one.
  2. The above is absolutely great advice. I couldn't agree more with each statement.

  3. jfirecops

    jfirecops New Member

    Nicely said, I wish more people thought like this instead of the "He-man super powers" that gossip at the local gun stores
  4. CDR_Glock

    CDR_Glock Well-Known Member

    I just think that many people are dangerous because they don't know their true abilities.

    When I told them that I read Florida Firearms: Laws, Use and Ownership, they would go, "Yeah, I'll look at it some time.". That sometime was never!

    After reading that I was a more informed citizen. Unfortunately not as many people are.
  5. divilglock

    divilglock Divilbliss

    great post. i totally agree. on top of practicing whether at home on the farm, or at my favorite shooting range being overseen by my instructor at all times, i set up a video cam as to go back & observe my technique, stance, etc. it allows me to correct my wrongs. i could not live with myself if i shot an innocent bystander if & when that moment arrived to draw & fire my weapon.
  6. Birddogyz

    Birddogyz Regular Guy

    Great Post. I agree with you totally. My wife recently got her Weapons permit, she does not carry yet, still in the training stages.She goes to the range at least once a week and understands that she is not ready.
  7. GAgal

    GAgal Well-Known Member

    As the wife, I can honestly say that I am not ready. I really need to do some CC/personal defense training first. For me, I feel it is the responsible thing to do. I don't know if I could live with myself if I hurt someone because I was being irresponsible and careless.
  8. sbg2340

    sbg2340 New Member

    House Approves Concealed Firearm Permit Bill

    A state permit to carry a concealed firearm would be valid in almost every state in the country under legislation the House passed Wednesday.
    The first pro-gun bill the House has taken up this year and the first since Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, D-Ariz., was severely injured in a gun attack in January, it had the National Rifle Association's backing and passed by a comfortable margin. The vote was 272-154, with only seven Republicans voting against it and 43 Democrats supporting it.
    The Democratic-controlled Senate has no parallel bill. But two years ago, GOP Sens. John Thune of South Dakota and David Vitter of Louisiana nearly succeeded in attaching a similar measure to a larger bill.
    Under the House legislation, people with a concealed carry permit in one state could carry a concealed weapon in every other state that gives people the right to carry concealed weapons.
    While states have various standards for issuing such permits, currently only Illinois and the District of Columbia prohibit the concealed carrying of weapons.
    "The Second Amendment is a fundamental right to bear arms that should not be constrained by state boundary lines," said GOP Rep. Lamar Smith of Texas, chairman of the House Judiciary Committee.
    The bill's chief co-sponsor, Rep. Cliff Stearns, R-Fla., said states should consider concealed carry permits no differently from driver's licenses recognized by all states. He noted that many states already have reciprocity agreements with other states.
    The legislation would "make it easier for law-abiding permit holders to know that they are simply in compliance with the law when they carry a firearm as they travel," he said.
    Democratic opponents said the bill would constitute a "race to the bottom," with states that have strict requirements for issuing permits having to accept permits from states with far more lax standards.
    "It's a situation where weaker state laws become the national law," said Rep. Bobby Scott, D-Va. He noted that some states require training for permit holders, or deny permits to those under 21 or who sell drugs to minors, commit sex offenses or are involved in domestic violence.
    According to the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, the measure would allow states with tough requirements, such as New York and California, "to allow in concealed carry gun-toting people from states, such as Florida, which repeatedly have given dangerous people licenses to carry."
    Rep. Carolyn McCarthy, D-N.Y., and Sen. Frank Lautenberg, D-N.J., wrote President Barack Obama last week urging him to issue a veto threat against the bill. Passing the bill "would jeopardize public safety and would be an insult to states like New Jersey and New York that purposefully have strong gun ownership laws," they wrote.
    The administration has not yet taken an official position on the bill.
    Democrats also chided Republicans for ignoring their dedication to states' rights. "For the Republican House majority that supposedly believes in states' rights, this bill is shocking," said Rep. Jerrold Nadler, D-N.Y.
    There hasn't been much legislative action on firearms issues this year. A spending bill that the House is expected to vote on this week would bar the Justice Department from consolidating firearms sales records or maintaining information on people who have passed firearms background checks.
    The chief sponsors of the concealed weapon measure, Stearns and Rep. Heath Shuler, D-N.C., said their proposal would not create a federal licensing system but merely require states to honor one another's carry permits.
    People who are unable to get a permit in their home state would not be able to carry a concealed weapon in their home state by getting a permit in another state. A state's ban on carrying concealed weapons in places such as bars, sporting events or state parks would apply to nonresidents as well as residents.
    Thirty-five states have "shall issue" permit laws that usually require states to issue permits to those who meet legal requirements. Ten others have "may issue" or discretionary permit laws. Vermont, Arizona, Alaska and Wyoming do not require a permit to carry a concealed weapon.
  9. Glock19

    Glock19 New Member

    Sound advice!
  10. bstroven

    bstroven New Member

    Great post!!!! As an instructor we got over many of those same steps durning the range portion of our classes. You are doing nothing but harming everybody around you if you can't complete the basics. We even instruct people to stand in front of the TV (unloaded of course) and do draw practice over and over.
  11. Webphisher

    Webphisher Duct Tape, Alabama Chrome

    Ya, this is a great example as to why I go once a week to the range to keep skills up, and why I will take anyone that isn't a spazz with me and teach them what I know. More people that are least not afraid of them, if not skilled enough to handle one, the better we are.

    The other great point brought up is in regards to the higher standard for justified lethal force. I've found that since I've started carrying I'm less likely to blow up at someone and more likely to just walk away from stuff.
  12. Happysniper1

    Happysniper1 New Member

    It is precisely because of the potential for things like this happening (incompetent shooters with CCW permits) that I support regulation that requires CCW applicants to take a training class....to learn the laws as well as to learn techniques.

    It is also why we have failed some students who, in the truest literal sense of the words, simply could not hit the broad side of a barn. NV laws require so many rounds to be fired impacting within an 8-inch circle of CBM from only 21 feet. We tirelessly work with students, and would never approve one who could not pass the course of fire requirement. It would be gross negligence on our part so to do, because these people will potentially represent a greater danger to innocent bystanders.

    By State law, subjects such as holster choices, techniques of drawing (from standing, sitting, in-car, flat on your back, etc), weapon retention (how to maintain control of your firearm during physical contact confrontation) and weapon takedown (how to take the gun away from an assailant) are discussed and demonstrated.

    In an ideal world, everyone should be entitled to a CCW permit without restriction. However, some people either out of stubborness or sheer incomptetence, are dangerous with a gun. This is the only reason why I agree with state regulations requiring training classes and certification.

    My views and opinions are not necessarily those of Glock Forum, its management, its owners or affiliates.

  13. Happysniper1

    Happysniper1 New Member

    In reference to SBG2340's post, seeing the date of his post (16 Jan 2012), I believe he is referring to HR 822, which has been referred to the Commitee on Judiciary (as of most recent information).

    The Senate companion bill to this, the "National Reciprocity Act of 2012" (S 2188) was introduced in the Senate on 13 March 2012, and is awaiting the required number of readings in committee before vote.
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2012