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Discussion Starter #1
Was just reading the 'LEO Carry' thread. I'm curious... there are many who see this nation as past the point of voting to make necessary changes. Corruption has gone too far.

The Constitution is bastardized and ignored by presidents and lawmakers. Corporations and Global Elitists pay many of our politicians to do their will. The voice of 'the people' just echoes into deaf, laughing ears. Many in government think THEY need to determine what's best for us.
The government's role is to ensure fair trade, military DEFENSE, and uphold The Constitution, not so much of what it does now.

You see people buying more survival gear, firearms, water treatment mechanisms, and long term food storage.

Meanwhile the TSA just contracted for 450 million hollow point rounds, bulletproof mobile checkpoints, and there are other 'behind the scenes scenarios many are ignorant to.' It does make one wonder... "Why?"

I'm not a doom & gloomer, not a prepper, but I am former military & have always kept a bug out bag & essentials on hand. I have had no firearm for twenty years until two months ago.

My question - if the scenario unfolds and you in the military & LEO's are called to enforce 'Martial Law' under a 'corrupt government' what will you do? Will you uphold the Constitution, or will you obey orders no matter who gives them? That's tough... easy to say what one would like to do, but as former military, I could not imagine disobeying even an illegal order... But I would hope I would act morally and like a MAN, with honor.

This is hypothetical. I can see it happening in the near future, but can also see the potential for people go wake up and care about our nation... though we may be past that. Hard to say... but I'd like to know where you stand. I have several friends in military, law enforcement (including family), and even friends/family who are 'covert...' I know where the stand...

Thanks for responding...
 

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I can sympathize with the soldiers and LEO of smaller nations where this has happened. It's a very serious personal dilemma, to say the least. Being former military and still having that military bearing, I can't see myself disobeying orders. My only hope is, in a Country with a military force this large, that intelligent high ranking officers would put an end to this before it ever got started. Through what ever means necessary. There are many patriotic Generals in our armed forces still that do love this great Nation and do have respect for the Constitution.
 

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Not in my America...!!

Most of our military now days is comprised of soldier/civilians, with families.

And with " a rifle behind every blade of grass "...I would think that

same military would take what weapons they have at their disposal

and stand with us on the other side of the line when it is drawn !
 

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SHOOTER13 said:
Not in my America...!!

Most of our military now days is comprised of soldier/civilians, with families.

And with " a rifle behind every blade of grass "...I would think that

same military would take what weapons they have at their disposal

and stand with us on the other side of the line when it is drawn !
+1 I would hope the same thing.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Not in my America...!!

Most of our military now days is comprised of soldier/civilians, with families.

And with " a rifle behind every blade of grass "...I would think that

same military would take what weapons they have at their disposal

and stand with us on the other side of the line when it is drawn !

I would hope so...
 

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Discussion Starter #11

Good to know - I have heard of this before. As I said, I am former military - US Army. I did not re-up because I saw some things happening (1987-1995) that I found disturbing. I decided that, if a time comes when I need to make a stand, I will do so as a civilian. I love my country... and will defend the Constitution and freedom until the bitter end, if need be. Would much rather see voting work, but I think it is beyond that with our system now.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I thought the same once myself but I then determined thought my personal honor and integrity means more to me than following an illegal order.
I agree - just couldn't imagine doing it - but as I followed with: "But I would hope I would act morally and like a MAN, with honor." I think of my family, my ancestors, and those that will follow. Life is one chance to do the right thing, no matter what.
 

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Words heard from my boss once:

"We are here to protect Democracy, not to practice it"

I believe I now know exactly what he means. Democracy WILL be protected, if nothing else, BY the People.
 

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I would say ALWAYS act with honor. Once again, an illegal direct order starts with illegal. Honor and protect our Constitution I think is good policy. So I agree with you Matt
 

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I've given this some thought recently. It would be hard to say what I would've done when I was in the military; it would've depended heavily on where I was stationed, because if I were on a ship, it would be hard to refuse. If we were assigned to some support mission that involved martial law, I would've objected, but I believe my CO would've followed orders. He was like that; ran the ship aground and rather than losing his command, he got promoted and transferred. You either know someone or blow someone to make that happen. If it had happened when I was on shore, that would've been different and I would've done what I felt was right. I've been trying to think back on the people I served with and while I don't remember a lot of them, of those I do I think maybe 1/3 would've stood up against an illegal order.

As a police officer, the answer's easier, because you don't automatically get locked up for refusing an order the way you can in the military. It's much easier to take a stand. That said, you also have to know your peers and what they would do, because it would be difficult to find yourself at war, literally, with people who had your back for the last decade or two.

I think that, as far as the military is concerned, it could literally come down to squad level leadership. The lower ranked enlisted will either follow their immediate supervisors, their closest friends or their own beliefs, depending on their level of intelligence and their ability to think for themselves. Anyone who's been in the military knows people who do what their told no matter what; people who require absolute structure and direction because they literally can't think for themselves. They're often really good soldiers/sailors/airmen/marines because they do everything exactly as they're told. Just don't put them in a position of having to make decisions about what/how to do.

Those will either follow the person that they've latched on to, big brother style, who can think for themselves, or they'll do exactly as their supervisor tells them to. The supervisors are more likely to think for themselves and if their supervisors aren't doing what's right, they'll take their people and go.

So, if it's not stopped at the high end of the chain of command, which I have doubts about, then it could come down to different platoons going against each other, or even individual squads breaking off and fighting within the platoon.

What I think would actually happen, because it would be primarily National Guard who would be called upon to enforce a martial law situation, is that the 2nd Civil War would start. There would be Governors and state legislatures that would say "not in my state" and we'd end up with a huge mess. Regular active duty units would have infighting across their bases, though I think a lot of the base commanders would, out of necessity, follow the direction the state went. If you find yourself isolated and surrounded by people who refuse, you either join them or you lock down your base and hope for the best, because sending your troops out would result in a massacre that no one would ever want to be responsible for.

I don't think that, any time in the next decade, we'll be able to vote in a President and a Congress that we can trust. I think it's either going to take a long time or violence (or at least the threat of violence) to put an end to the threat.
 

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Words heard from my boss once:

"We are here to protect Democracy, not to practice it"

I believe I now know exactly what he means. Democracy WILL be protected, if nothing else, BY the People.
Well, technically we (The USA) are a republic not a democracy :p

Getting overtly technical we are a democratic republic..........




Sorry just had to yank yer chain
 

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But you are correct! Chain well yanked. Ha ha!
 

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Oathkeeper yesterday, Oathkeeper today and I'll still be an Oathkeeper tomorrow.

Any questions?
 

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Kmurray96 said:
Oathkeeper yesterday, Oathkeeper today and I'll still be an Oathkeeper tomorrow.

Any questions?
I am glad to see your flag has the proper order of priorities. God, Family, Country.
 
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