I have 135 gr Hydra Shok jhp low recoil 9mm i havent shot them but i can tell you this i DO NOT WANT TO BE SHOT BY THEM lol
Hornady vs Federal ammo
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Last I checked I was under the impression that hollow point ammunition was designed to prevent "through and through" wounds when fired into flesh. FMJ doesn't expand at all and only slows minimally when entering the body, short of hitting bone or another hard material.
True. But in a court of law, "perception is reality". The first thing that prosecutor or liability lawyer is going to bring out is the fact the box says Critical Duty on it. And that Hornaday also manufactures Critical Defense ammo. And don't think he/she won't have pictures of both boxes to wave at the jury, either.Last I checked I was under the impression that hollow point ammunition was designed to prevent "through and through" wounds when fired into flesh. FMJ doesn't expand at all and only slows minimally when entering the body, short of hitting bone or another hard material.
Also, keep in mind, in a criminal case, all 12 jurors have to vote to convict. In most states, in civil court, only a majority have to vote to take your whole life's savings and future income. And most of those courts have less than 12 jurors.
Pain goes away, but money going away hurts forever.
Fair enough, but let me pose this question to you. Do you qualify with Critical Defense at the range? Because following that logic, it'd be just as easy to say you weren't proficient with it because you don't spend as much time with it.
All of this is for the sake of conversation; I choose to carry 124 Gr +P Speer Gold Dot JHP in my weapon... we both know part of the training is shoot / no shoot and the penalties are just as grave whether on duty or not; This is why we have lawyers on both sides of the court.
Bottom line? Hopefully neither of us have to break leather anytime soon.
"Sake of conversation" my foot. You just brought up a good point. On our dept. range we do requals with FMJ with the dept. guns. On duty, though, we're issued JHP. The JHP may also be from different manufacturers. (This goes back to a few years ago when .40 cal got in tight supply and even LE departments were having trouble getting enough supplies.) I've even been issued trays with different makers within the 36 I'm given for that night. I mentioned that one night at the arsenal window and was told, "They're all like that".Fair enough, but let me pose this question to you. Do you qualify with Critical Defense at the range? Because following that logic, it'd be just as easy to say you weren't proficient with it because you don't spend as much time with it.
All of this is for the sake of conversation; I choose to carry 124 Gr +P Speer Gold Dot JHP in my weapon... we both know part of the training is shoot / no shoot and the penalties are just as grave whether on duty or not; This is why we have lawyers on both sides of the court.
Bottom line? Hopefully neither of us have to break leather anytime soon.
As for our OD requals, as long as your weapon is DAO, restricted to a 15 rd. magazine and an approved manufacturer, you can pretty much "run what you brung". I don't remember anyone's ammo actually being inspected. Most of us run Winchester white box FMJ with our personal OD weapons.
Our dept. stopped supplying the ammo for OD requals 20 years ago when they stopped using/authorizing reloads. Being a member in the largest dept. in NJ, you can imagine the size of our range classes. We don't even do a practice run. It's class, lunch, outside and shoot. If you don't requal on the first run, then you get a reshoot. Second fail is a reschedule. Then those that have OD guns qual/requal. OD carry is not mandated by my dept. And since our dept has become insanely anal about OT, if you bring 2 OD's, you better have your mags preloaded and ready to go on a 2nd weapon.
Use of force, shoot/ don't shoot (Garner vs. Tennessee, et al) is covered in classroom. Practical shoot/don't shoot is only done with SOG.
Thanks for bringing up a good subject. It opens up good questions of liability down the road. I'll make sure to send this matter along.
Your input on this forum may just save an officer from not only losing his livelihood but, his/her liberty as well.
Thank you.
Yeah. I just don't trust lawyers. Maybe that's from living in NJ where there's more lawyers than dogs, and dogs are more trustworthy.
Shakespeare said it best over 300 years ago in "Henry VI" (Act IV, Scene II)...“The first thing we do, let’s kill all the lawyers”.
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