Homeowner uses lethal force.

9737 Views 298 Replies 20 Participants Last post by Danzig, 4 d ago

RIP

Discussion Starter · May 17, 2022

This thread is to provide stories and lawful commentary regarding the use of lethal force to protect our homesteads. Americans have been using lethal force to protect their homestead since before the 13 colonies. This thread is for educational purposes only. Therefore, please only provide legal arguments for or against lethal force for protecting your homestead. If you provide clearly unlawful commentary:

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pr5992

· #261 · 1 mo ago

Louisille PD take down a mass shooter. Sadly a rookie officer got shot in the head.

The shooter was a young bank employee who was told he was going to be fired. He bought an AR the week before, and went on a shootage rampage. Some serious mental health issues there, just the kind of guy I do not like to be able to own guns no matter what the Second Amendment says.

Danzig

· #262 · 1 mo ago

2

pr5992 said:
Louisille PD take down a mass shooter. Sadly a rookie officer got shot in the head.

The shooter was a young bank employee who was told he was going to be fired. He bought an AR the week before, and went on a shootage rampage. Some serious mental health issues there, just the kind of guy I do not like to be able to own guns no matter what the Second Amendment says.

A Democrat martyr for the cause!
Surprised he didn’t blame it on climate change too.

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pr5992

· #263 · 1 mo ago

Danzig said:
A Democrat martyr for the cause!
Surprised he didn’t blame it on climate change too.
View attachment 285727
View attachment 285726

Urgh ... what a nutcase. Just the kind of guy that shouldn't be able to buy a gun, and yet here we are. There were lots of red flags from statements that he wanted to commit suicide to messages that he wanted to kill people. If you look at the picture of family and friends he looks like a regular nice ordinary young guy. You just never know what goes on in someone's head.

I'm trying to find the manifesto but it's not published anywhere online that I know.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Louisville bank killer left manifesto revealing motives for shooting

Louisville bank shooter Connor Sturgeon wrote a chilling manifesto before slaughtering five senior executives at the branch where he worked, DailyMail.com can exclusively reveal.

www.dailymail.co.uk

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Danzig

· #264 · 1 mo ago

pr5992 said:
Urgh ... what a nutcase. Just the kind of guy that shouldn't be able to buy a gun, and yet here we are. There were lots of red flags from statements that he wanted to commit suicide to messages that he wanted to kill people. If you look at the picture of family and friends he looks like a regular nice ordinary young guy. You just never know what goes on in someone's head.

I'm trying to find the manifesto but it's not published anywhere online that I know.

Louisville bank killer left manifesto revealing motives for shooting

Louisville bank shooter Connor Sturgeon wrote a chilling manifesto before slaughtering five senior executives at the branch where he worked, DailyMail.com can exclusively reveal.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Anything that doesn’t promote the agenda is hidden!

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Danzig

· #265 · 1 mo ago

pr5992 said:
Urgh ... what a nutcase. Just the kind of guy that shouldn't be able to buy a gun, and yet here we are. There were lots of red flags from statements that he wanted to commit suicide to messages that he wanted to kill people. If you look at the picture of family and friends he looks like a regular nice ordinary young guy. You just never know what goes on in someone's head.

I'm trying to find the manifesto but it's not published anywhere online that I know.

Louisville bank killer left manifesto revealing motives for shooting

Louisville bank shooter Connor Sturgeon wrote a chilling manifesto before slaughtering five senior executives at the branch where he worked, DailyMail.com can exclusively reveal.

www.dailymail.co.uk

This is garbage!

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The 4473 has mental health questions that he apparently lied on. The Federal law supersedes state law on gun purchases. So he committed a Federal felony purchasing the firearm.

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Danzig

· #266 · 1 mo ago

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NASHVILLE, Tenn.--A Nashville councilwoman says releasing the 'manifesto' of The Covenant School shooter may provide more harm than good by being released to the public.
Metro Nashville Councilwoman Courtney Johnston has represented District 26 since 2019 and sits on multiple committees. FOX 17 News spoke with Johnston on Friday, addressing the 'manifesto' left behind by Audrey Hale before taking the lives of three children and three staff members at The Covenant School.

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pr5992

· #267 · 1 mo ago

Danzig said:
This is garbage!
View attachment 285738
The 4473 has mental health questions that he apparently lied on. The Federal law supersedes state law on gun purchases. So he committed a Federal felony purchasing the firearm.

Not total garbage, but a half truth at best.

Digging deeper:

Form 4473 does indeed ask about mental health. Question 11 f on 4473 asks for this:

"f. Have you ever been adjudicated as a mental defective OR have you ever been committed to a mental institution? (See Instructions for Question 11.f.)"

In the guidance, 4473 provides this explanation:

"Question 11.f. Adjudicated as a Mental Defective: A determination by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority that a person, as a result of marked subnormal intelligence, or mental illness, incompetency, condition, or disease: (1) is a danger to himself or to others; or (2) lacks the mental capacity to contract or manage his own affairs. This term shall include: (1) a finding of insanity by a court in a criminal case; and (2) those persons found incompetent to stand trial or found not guilty by reason of lack of mental responsibility."

As far I know, this guy did not have a "determination by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority", though there were plenty of red flags, as in: comments made to his roommate about feeling suicidal and wanting to go on a shooting spree.

This guy was obviously going off the cliff mentally. He's not alone, the shooter in Uvalde was also going off the cliff. I call these guys "timebombs". They haven't been legally convicted of anything so they can legally purchase a firearm. But given their state of mind they shouldn't be able to.

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Danzig

· #268 · 1 mo ago

pr5992 said:
Not total garbage, but a half truth at best.

Digging deeper:

Form 4473 does indeed ask about mental health. Question 11 f on 4473 asks for this:

"f. Have you ever been adjudicated as a mental defective OR have you ever been committed to a mental institution? (See Instructions for Question 11.f.)"

In the guidance, 4473 provides this explanation:

"Question 11.f. Adjudicated as a Mental Defective: A determination by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority that a person, as a result of marked subnormal intelligence, or mental illness, incompetency, condition, or disease: (1) is a danger to himself or to others; or (2) lacks the mental capacity to contract or manage his own affairs. This term shall include: (1) a finding of insanity by a court in a criminal case; and (2) those persons found incompetent to stand trial or found not guilty by reason of lack of mental responsibility."

As far I know, this guy did not have a "determination by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority", though there were plenty of red flags, as in: comments made to his roommate about feeling suicidal and wanting to go on a shooting spree.

This guy was obviously going off the cliff mentally. He's not alone, the shooter in Uvalde was also going off the cliff. I call these guys "timebombs". They haven't been legally convicted of anything so they can legally purchase a firearm. But given their state of mind they shouldn't be able to.

There’s question 21c.

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pr5992

· #269 · 1 mo ago

Danzig said:
There’s question 21c.
View attachment 285769

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Forms forms forms.

It's just paperwork, checking boxes. It's BS unless backed up by some agency actually checking whether I am a nutcase or not.

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Danzig

· #270 · 1 mo ago (Edited)

pr5992 said:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Forms forms forms.

It's just paperwork, checking boxes. It's BS unless backed up by some agency actually checking whether I am a nutcase or not.

The thought crime bureau from Minority Report hasn’t become a reality so near impossible to know in advance.

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G29guy

· #271 · 1 mo ago

Good depiction of self defense today. I’ve heard many people speak on these topics online, many not from very informed positions….

1) how does a G43 w/ 7rounds sound for this situation? Not very good.

2) I don’t know the citizen defender, but what I do know about them is that they didn’t spend any time fretting over “what would a DA say? What would my lawyer say? Do you think I’ll get sued?” Nope!

This citizen defender had some training and had already decided before the “witching hour” what they were going to do in the event they were in this specific situation. Because they had already decided and trained in their mind prior to, they were able to act quickly and decisively. Speed/ Surprise/ Violence of action win gunfights…

anyways, good video of a real life encounter and the modern “threat matrix”.

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G29guy

· #272 · 1 mo ago

G29guy said:
Good depiction of self defense today. I’ve heard many people speak on these topics online, many not from very informed positions….

1) how does a G43 w/ 7rounds sound for this situation? Not very good.

2) I don’t know the citizen defender, but what I do know about them is that they didn’t spend any time fretting over “what would a DA say? What would my lawyer say? Do you think I’ll get sued?” Nope!

This citizen defender had some training and had already decided before the “witching hour” what they were going to do in the event they were in this specific situation. Because they had already decided and trained in their mind prior to, they were able to act quickly and decisively. Speed/ Surprise/ Violence of action win gunfights…

anyways, good video of a real life encounter and the modern “threat matrix”.

Did I post this in the wrong thread? I thought I had posted in self defense as it’s own topic…..

cuz homie ain’t a home Owner of the store….he may be an actual home owner, but this was a citizen defender in a store…what do I know though🤷‍♂️

RIP

Discussion Starter · #273 · 1 mo ago

G29guy said:
Did I post this in the wrong thread? I thought I had posted in self defense as it’s own topic…..

cuz homie ain’t a home Owner of the store….he may be an actual home owner, but this was a citizen defender in a store…what do I know though🤷‍♂️

The system did it automatically.

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RIP

Discussion Starter · #274 · 1 mo ago

RIP said:
Blame the software. The system did it automatically.

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pr5992

· #275 · 1 mo ago

Danzig said:
The thought crime bureau from Minority Report hasn’t become a reality so near impossible to know in advance.

I know this is difficult, but imo this is really critical in trying to prevent mass shootings. Research of all the past mass shootings from Columbine onward has revealed that in 80% of mass shootings the shooter told someone in advance in his plans, but wasn't taken seriously. Things like posting on social media about suicide or telling friends that you are planning a mass shooting. Since 9/11 we are all familiar and subscribe to the notion of "if you see something, say something." Source: Countering the mass shooter threat by Michael Martin, published by the USCCA, chapter on "know the signs" (the FBI and ALERTT have done research on this and have come to similar conclusions). We should adopt a similar approach with people who are going off the rails and display these red flags. There's a big mental health problem in the US.

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RIP

Discussion Starter · #276 · 1 mo ago

Chicago is one of the nation's gun violence hotspots and a seemingly ideal place to employ Illinois' "red flag" law that allows police to step in and take firearms away from people who threaten to kill. But amid more than 8,500 shootings resulting in 1,800 deaths since 2020, the law was used there just four times.
It's a pattern that's played out in New Mexico, with nearly 600 gun homicides during that period and a mere eight uses of its red flag law. And in Massachusetts, with nearly 300 shooting homicides and just 12 uses of its law.
An Associated Press analysis found many U.S. states barely use the red flag laws touted as the most powerful tool to stop gun violence before it happens, a trend blamed on a lack of awareness of the laws and resistance by some authorities to enforce them even as shootings and gun deaths soar.
AP found such laws in 19 states and the District of Columbia were used to remove firearms from people 15,049 times since 2020, fewer than 10 per 100,000 adult residents. Experts called that woefully low and not nearly enough to make a dent in gun violence, considering the millions of firearms in circulation and countless potential warning signs law enforcement officers encounter from gun owners every day.

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RIP

Discussion Starter · #277 · 1 mo ago

"It's too small a pebble to make a ripple," Duke University sociologist Jeffrey Swanson, who has studied red flag gun surrender orders across the nation, said of the AP tally. "It's as if the law doesn't exist."
"The number of people we are catching with red flags is likely infinitesimal," added Indiana University law professor Jody Madeira, who like other experts who reviewed AP's findings wouldn't speculate how many red flag removal orders would be necessary to make a difference.
The search for solutions comes amid a string of mass shootings in Buffalo, New York, Uvalde, Texas, and Highland Park, Illinois, and a spike in gun violence not seen in decades: 27,000 deaths so far this year, following 45,000 deaths each of the past two years.
AP's count, compiled from inquiries and Freedom of Information Law requests, showed wide disparities in how the laws were applied from state to state, county to county, most without regard to population or crime rates.
Florida led with 5,800 such orders, or 34 per 100,000 adult residents, but that is due mostly to aggressive enforcement in a few counties that don't include Miami-Dade and others with more gun killings. More than a quarter of Illinois' slim 154 orders came from one suburban county that makes up just 7 percent of the state's population. California had 3,197 orders but was working through a backlog of three times that number of people barred from owning guns under a variety of measures who had not yet surrendered them.

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RIP

Discussion Starter · #278 · 1 mo ago

And a national movement among politicians and sheriffs that has declared nearly 2,000 counties as "Second Amendment Sanctuaries," opposing laws that infringe on gun rights, may have affected red flag enforcement in several states. In Colorado, 37 counties that consider themselves "sanctuaries" issued just 45 surrender orders in the two years through last year, a fifth fewer than non-sanctuary counties did per resident. New Mexico and Nevada reported only about 20 orders combined.
"The law shouldn't even be there in the first place," argued Richard Mack, a former Arizona sheriff who heads the pro-gun Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers Association. "You're taking away someone's property and means of self-defense."

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Danzig

· #279 · 1 mo ago

RIP said:
"It's too small a pebble to make a ripple," Duke University sociologist Jeffrey Swanson, who has studied red flag gun surrender orders across the nation, said of the AP tally. "It's as if the law doesn't exist."
"The number of people we are catching with red flags is likely infinitesimal," added Indiana University law professor Jody Madeira, who like other experts who reviewed AP's findings wouldn't speculate how many red flag removal orders would be necessary to make a difference.
The search for solutions comes amid a string of mass shootings in Buffalo, New York, Uvalde, Texas, and Highland Park, Illinois, and a spike in gun violence not seen in decades: 27,000 deaths so far this year, following 45,000 deaths each of the past two years.
AP's count, compiled from inquiries and Freedom of Information Law requests, showed wide disparities in how the laws were applied from state to state, county to county, most without regard to population or crime rates.
Florida led with 5,800 such orders, or 34 per 100,000 adult residents, but that is due mostly to aggressive enforcement in a few counties that don't include Miami-Dade and others with more gun killings. More than a quarter of Illinois' slim 154 orders came from one suburban county that makes up just 7 percent of the state's population. California had 3,197 orders but was working through a backlog of three times that number of people barred from owning guns under a variety of measures who had not yet surrendered them.

The last federal legislation passed concerning crime throws vast sums of money to states to enact and or aggressively enforce red flag laws.
Of course this is touted as an answer by the “do something do anything” crowd and a victory by the gun grabbers.

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RIP

Discussion Starter · #280 · 1 mo ago

Danzig said:
The last federal legislation passed concerning crime throws vast sums of money to states to enact and or aggressively enforce red flag laws.
Of course this is touted as an answer by the “do something do anything” crowd and a victory by the gun grabbers.

I wonder where the vast sums of money went?

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