[Matthew780]

So I finally got my first hassling about OCing in a store. But of all places it was in a Walmart lol.

Some doe eyed scared old man ran to the management, "MAN WITH GUN WAH" lol. So the manager tracks me down and wants to "Ask me about the firearm". So I go sure what do you wanna know? Then proceeds to tell me about how it needs to be concealed and asks for my permit blah blah blah. I then proceed to tell him that in CO you don't need a permit to open carry and the only place that doesn't allow it is Denver, I was no where near Denver, and then went on to tell him how Walmart was one of the few companies that openly supported the Bill of Rights. After going on and on about this he finally admitted that he recently moved here and no idea what the actual laws were.

Now normally I wouldn't have had any issue with this at all, but the fact that he comes at me spouting everything I should be doing and no CLUE what the laws or his own store policies were just annoys me.

Let this be a warning to all, make sure you know your rights and the laws for where you are. Or you might get in trouble for something that isn't even against the law.

Always a good idea to know the Concealed and Open carry laws in your state !!

1st off, I want to say my hat is off to ALL who have the knowledge, confidence, training and kahoona's to Open Carry. Reading this thread just made me want to stand up and CHEER!

But also let me say, I don't feel in the above stated manner JUST because I, myself, open carry. Personally, I feel like EVERYONE should be exercising this right that so MANY (untold hundreds of thousands) have bled and died to forge and protect. If that were so, then people wouldn't be sneaking around talking to people saying, "Pssst. Did you just see that man with a gun?" They would be walking about and when they saw someone that DIDN'T carry, they would ask, "Pardon me Sir. Not that it's any of my business, but where in the world is your gun? " It's not the fact that we carry that's so unusual. It's the fact that the public has been programmed to think "only bad men have guns".

But all this changes in an instant when THEY are attacked and want help. Instantly, they are DAMNED GLAD to see someone with a gun that's on their side. Programming only goes so far and it definitely gives way to common sense when "real life" situations arise. Their "common sense" kicks in and then it's to hell with the programming, lol.

Webphisher? Hat's off to ya, man. Way to go, Pal.

Sniper? Way to be aware and use your head, man... Outstanding in my book.

Edit: I just happened to think, there may be those that think I'm implying that those that don't open carry don't have Kahoona's... I DID NOT mean to imply that. Those that carry concealed have equal kahoona's in my opinion. Just wanted to make that clear.

 

[Matthew780]

I really really hope you didn't mean you literally slammed him against an aisle for following you. That's called battery and is illegal in all 50 states. In most states it goes to a felony level if you are armed. There is nothing wrong with following someone and to "slam them into the aisle" can and should send a person to jail.

I would think stalking is illegal and that one would have the right to defend against it. I certainly wouldn't stand for it. And I don't think I have to. But I will check this further to see what the legalities are.

When you reference being "armed", are you saying "carrying"? Or actually brandishing the weapon?

 

[Matthew780]

WV Stalking Laws:

"Even if stalking is illegal (and store security following someone is NOT stalking) getting physical with someone when they have not presented any danger to you is not legal in any state I am aware of." ~ Sarabian

W. Va. Code § 61-2-9a. Stalking; harassment; penalties; definitions. (2008)
(a) Any person who repeatedly follows another knowing or having reason to know that the conduct causes the person followed to reasonably fear for his or her safety or suffer significant emotional distress, is guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction thereof, shall be incarcerated in the county or regional jail for not more than six months or fined not more than one thousand dollars, or both.


http://www.ncvc.org/src/main.aspx?dbID=DB_WestVirginia454

In West Virginia, following someone (especially when you've failed to identify yourself and are acting with intended stealth) ISN'T always legal and there CAN be something wrong with it. I guess it's best for each individual to check their local laws to see if stalking and/or harassment is legal in your State.

I'm still curious as to what "armed" means in northern Indiana. ???

 

[Matthew780]

I wonder if a shopping cart can be construed as a deadly weapon?

I don't know about "construed", lol. But almost anything on earth can be used as a deadly weapon if someone wants to kill someone with it... ex. pens, pencils, garbage bags, cars, hammers, screwdrivers, guns, shovels, axes, ect., ect., etc.. you know... Tools are tools. It's the people behind them that are the problem. NOT the tool.

And for the record, it's obvious you meant the man no harm, or he would have been harmed. You were wanting to safely inquire as to why he was stealthily stalking you. In THIS State, that isn't a problem, I don't think.

Adding also: Around here? If you jailed everyone for such a thing as what you did Sniper? It would be impossible to house them all... But I'll admit... Liberals LOVE to micro-manage.

 

[Matthew780]

Now you have to prove that this was not only stalking (you have to demonstrate how this made you fear for your safety or suffer some sort of emotional distress AND that this person was actually following you and not just shopping in the same areas), but that you were justified in taking aggressive physical action against that person. Having someone simply follow you is not grounds to get physical. Still battery so far (clarifications in other responses notwithstanding).

Edit: Forgot about the word "repeatedly" in the quoted law. Can you demonstrate repeat occurrences?

This is getting fun

You can "charge" anybody, with anything, at any time. Charging someone is easy. Convicting them is where the burden lay... and the "burden of proof" is on the one pressing the charges. Sarabian, would you be willing to charge Sniper with battery over what he did? Did you do so while in service? Charge people in this fashion? I'm just wondering. If so, it HAD to be a very small town or you had one hell of a big jail.

Proving Sniper was concerned over the actions of the unidentified security officer is easy. If he hadn't had cause for concern, Sniper would have not taken to action. There was no other motive. Correct? Emotional distress is evident. Sniper is an open carry kind of guy that takes it seriously enough to be aware of his surroundings and do his best to identify any threat as early as possible.

This was not a "repeat offense" if you group all of this officer's actions into a heap in this one instance. But he could be perceived as planning his moment of attack which was probably what was actually on Sniper's mind at the time. IF someone... anyone is "following", there is a motive. And if that motive is unknown to you, it is threatening. Agreed? I think you would perceive it the same way, Sarabian. Heck. We all would. Wouldn't we?

The guard should have immediately identified himself and his motives then proceeded with his course of action. It was doubtful he was ever there to "thwart" anything if he suspected Sniper was going to rob the place at gunpoint. He just did his job in amateur fashion and got called on it. Battery? Hardly.

Bottom line is, if you took this to court around here Sarabian, it would get dismissed and the Judge would have a good, long talk with you afterwards. Seen it happen. IF you are/were a real Police Chief (?), you know what I'm saying is true.

Hell... All this is a nickel's worth at least! LOL!

0.05$

 

[Matthew780]

I was having fun with this, but upon listening to the sarcasm drip and having myself being painted the fool I'll just leave you alone. Nice moderation.

Hell. Me too! No one is actually serious here are they? HAHAHAHAHAHA!

That's the funny thing about "motives"... Sometimes it's just hard to tell. Eh?

I'm sorry for mis-understanding yours, Sarabian. Really.

 

[Matthew780]

Me? I personally would have turned with the cart between us and asked him why he was following me without making physical contact and would have done it with distance to keep him back. From what you typed it wouldn't have been hard to wait until you were in a main aisle, or even near the employee area in electronics to confront him peaceably and with some distance. My gun side would have been away from him in the event it was needed.

My only point was in how you originally stated it you made it sound like you shoved him against a shelf and demanded to know why he was following you. I was simply cautioning people against making physical contact. Take it however you like, but based on what you said you committed battery, even if it can't be proven in court. You said you intentionally blocked him in with the cart and made physical contact while doing it. B misdemeanor here. If he had so much as a red mark from a shelf or hook, that would have satisfied injury in this state and you could have been jailed on an A misdemeanor. Want me to cite case law? Not gonna happen. If I was called to a Wal*Mart and this story was shown to me on the security cameras and I saw a mark, I would have made the arrest. Have fun with the defense.

Any other LEOs want to give a viewpoint from their jurisdiction? I'd be interested to hear.

Hmmm. Ok. You were having fun with this and being serious? HAHAHAHAHA! Ok, Sir.

There's alot of difference in WV's vs. Indiana's laws. Around here they have much more serious concerns than to be jailing people who've minimally confronted someone and the laws here don't support such things. Heck. You have to have shots fired and someone bleeding to get a policeman in 30 minutes... Most anything else and they don't even show, lol... Ahhh... Wild, wonderful, West Virginia.

Just wondering. Are you a Democrat? HAHAHAHAHAHAH! Settle down now. Just havin' fun... lol.

 

[Matthew780]

Ok guys. Let's stop fighting about whose shopping cart is bigger...

HAHAHAHAHAHA... I agree. It's all good.

 

[Matthew780]

I was just annoyed that he had no clue about local laws or his stores policy but he had the nerve to try and tell me what I SHOULD be doing according to whatever rules he pulled out of his ass.

That's a classic liberal for ya... And if that doesn't work, they wiggle their own into the system and birth whatever laws they need to MAKE you do it, if possible... and most of the time it is... possible, that is.

 

[Matthew780]

I studied a little bit of legal and law in high school few years back but at that point there is np issue with slamming someone to a shelf or the ground all you have to say is that they never identified themselves and they were following you for an unknown reason and u feared for your life. I can honestly say if someone followed me like that it would bot turn into a slam it would be a string right hook or uppercut. Lol

​

 

[Matthew780]

I wrote correct me if Im wrong but it just decided not to show up I guess! Lol

HAHAHAHA... No Sir. Not saying you're wrong at all.

I'm just TRYING not to say anything beyond what I've said...

I just think the Law sometimes, despite a best effort at a "one size fits all" thing, sometimes comes up short initially. I'm talking about in MANY instances and MANY different scenarios. Justice is best served when common sense, grace and mercy is applied whenever possible, but that usually comes AFTER an arrest is made as many time the Officer's hands are tied in-as-far as the actions they must/must not take. Being arrested NEVER indicates guilt. The outcome of the following trial either will, or it won't. And in this country, you are SUPPOSED to be innocent until PROVEN guilty. This includes the time between being arrested and the outcome of your trial.

I too would hope that any state's laws would accommodate one's right to confront someone following them for reasons unknown. Police have techniques for doing this safely, which most times exceeds in action anything described here.

Admittedly, I know nothing of any States laws except WV. If the security force in this instance wasn't guilty of stalking, their actions definitely qualified as harassment under WV law, no matter who was arrested for what. It was clear that Sniper 1 was being followed simply because he was carrying his handgun... which was fine I guess, except that Security should have made their intent known, or better yet, immediately confronted Sniper concerning the issue instead of initiating a covert operation, lol. And after confrontation, the employee reveals his intent and left... Just the way it SHOULD have went down... without anyone being over-zealous about anything.

(Again-My own "opinion" here)

 

[Matthew780]

Welcome to the Glock Forum tinnokr !!

Welcome to the Glock Forum tsarac !!

My welcomes to you both as well. I think you'll really enjoy it here.

 

[Matthew780]

hey i am not crazy, my glock said i wasn't. It is perfectly normal to read bedtime stories to your glock and hold conversations about your day.

hahahahahahahahaha...

 

[Matthew780]

Hi guys. I am the founder of NEO Carry, a gun rights and second amendment advocacy group based out of Northeast Ohio. We support both open and concealed carry. I would have to disagree with this post. I think many of the LEO's in the Northeast Ohio area have been trained and understand the legality of OC. We just recently held an OC walk/meet & greet in downtown Akron (along Main Street, High Street, and Bowery Street) and had no issues with law enforcement. Most of the LEO’s just drove by and looked. We had one who pulled a u-turn, pulled over on the side of the road and watched us, but he did not make contact. We passed out fliers to people for about 2 hours and had VERY positive encounters. People were generally interested in finding out more info on gun laws in Ohio. Check out our website to see more (www.neoopencarry.org). Also please like us on facebook and subscribe to us on youtube. Our video of the Akron walk is posted on both the website and on youtube.

Overall though it was a very positive experience and we will be looking to do more walks in Canton, Cleveland, Youngstown, and Kent. If you are interested in joining us on an OC walk, let me know and I can get you more info.

I have been OCing in Northeast Ohio for over a year now and have yet to have an issue with LE. I have OCed in Youngstown, Akron, Ellet, Kent, Stow, Springfield, etc.

Welcome to the forum. We appreciate the input!

I'd like to welcome you to the forum also, NEO. And I too appreciate your direct knowledge of this. Thank you, Sir.