Gun store requiring cond.4 weapons in store

Discussion in 'General Firearm Forum' started by MarinewithaGlock, May 15, 2012.

  1. MarinewithaGlock

    MarinewithaGlock Premium Member

    As anyone else come across gun stores that require you to condition 4 (mag. removed, no round in chamber) your carry weapon while in store? I use to never have a problem with it until I moved to Lexington KY. Two gun shops (both have ranges FYI) to clear my weapon in their store. I was OC but I have a CC permit but I found this weird; 1. I've never had this problem outside of Lexington 2. There was no safe place to clear my weapon, i.e.. clearing barrel or such. Anyone's thoughts on this subject.

    I've never had this problem CC obviously because they couldn't see it.
     
  2. SHOOTER13

    SHOOTER13 RETIRED MODERATOR Sponsor Lifetime Supporting Member

    That sounds dangerous...and stupid on their part...

    and I would not want to be in that store when someone else was clearing their weapon either.

    Was there an area set aside, or do they expect people to clear their weapons outside their front door.

    Unbelieveable...incredible...stupid !
     

  3. MarinewithaGlock

    MarinewithaGlock Premium Member

    Well one store (not gonna give the name but they've also got a huge online store but their local store is here in Lexington) an associate asked me to hand him by Condition 1 G23 and he cleared it in the store by the counter. And the other store which is smaller but still a decent sized store just asked me to unload it so I literally went outside the door and looked around and found the safest area and cleared it and came back in. I wouldn't deal with them if they werent the only places in Lexington that I know of that have ranges. I didn't know if having an indoor range had anything to do with it but the range I use to go to outside Louisville never asked me to unload, show clear.
    But these stores didn't have any clearing barrels or anywhere to set aside in case someone did accidentally ND while clearing. I wasn't too happy but I didn't have anywhere else to go. I've started CCing so I don't have to deal with it but it still concerns me.

    The smaller store didn't start this policy until they moved to a bigger location with the range which leads to think it has to do with the city of Lexington and indoor ranges or something. I haven't asked. I'm taking my wife shooting for the first time Thursday and if they ask me to unload show clear I am gonna ask for an explanation.
     
  4. SHOOTER13

    SHOOTER13 RETIRED MODERATOR Sponsor Lifetime Supporting Member

    The liability alone would / should raise concerns...I've have seen ( and having served, so have you ) people

    who shouldn't even carry a gun at the range and how they handle their firearms...and the likelyhood of an AD

    outside or inside an establishment really begs for an explaination of how they can maintain insurance given the unsafe

    environment they are willingly creating...it's borders on the absurd !!
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2012
  5. MarinewithaGlock

    MarinewithaGlock Premium Member

    Yea that was my biggest concern. Knowing there are people out there who aren't proficient in firearms manipulations, whether it be because they are new to firearms or just incompetent but they are allowed to OC under KY state law. I would run for cover if they tried to unload their firearm near me. Another question that just popped into my head is if I cop is driving by and sees someone outside brandishing a firearm to clear it, they could also get into legal trouble depending on the officer and the day he is having. I'm definitely going to get some more information on this Thursday when I OC to the larger store to teach the wife how to shoot and try and find her something to suit her.
     
  6. When i lived in Grand Rapids MI the lame store there Silver Bullet had this. I ignored their signs and carried concealed everytime. The one time it came up i said no way in hell i will clear my gun when you all clear yours. Every employee there carries, they all think they are gods gift to guns, and they scare the **** out of me.
     
  7. MarinewithaGlock

    MarinewithaGlock Premium Member

    Hey NUK. Did you get my PM the other night? About me trying to PM two people at once?

    But I'll let y'all know how this goes Thursday if they ask me to unload. The bigger store is hit or miss on asking but the smaller store, as soon as I walked in the door they asked me to. The bigger store is the biggest in town and one of the biggest and best online stores in the country so it amazes me that they do that. You would think they gun community would be a little more receptive to loaded weapons and smart enough to not ask to unload dangerously like that.
     
  8. cvitter

    cvitter New Member

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    The range I shoot at here in Virginia mandates that all weapons be unloaded prior to entering the store front (either through the front door or from the range) with no exceptions. That's the only place I have run into it. The NRA range out in Fairfax where I shoot sometimes does not have the same rule and none of the gun stores have that rule.

    I have always just assumed they had an issue and decided that it was safer to ask everyone to unload prior to coming into the shop. My guess is that they had a ND. But in other parts of the county there may be regulations that require guns to be unloaded.

    Edit: I meant to say country above, not county, just to clarify. :>
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2012
  9. Forgot about that. I didnt understand it
     
  10. bagozzi46

    bagozzi46 New Member

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    I'm in the same area as you. Can you PM me the name of this range so I don't have to deal with this in the future? I don't think the county has any regulations requiring guns to be unloaded in shops.
     
  11. bagozzi46

    bagozzi46 New Member

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    Same area in Virginia that is.
     
  12. jonm61

    jonm61 New Member

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    There are two stores here that have signs posted. One has a range and the other just recently moved and will be opening a range. They expect you to clear your weapon before entering the store or leave it in the car. I shoot at that range occasionally, because it's the closest, and I've never bothered. My carry gun is concealed. It gets cleared when I get to my lane in the range. They have cameras, they do watch them and they will say something if someone is doing something against the rules. They have yet to say anything to me about it.

    The stores that I've encountered this in, as I said above, expect you to clear your weapon before you enter. This is for liability reasons; they don't want you handling a loaded weapon in the store.

    There are plenty of idiots out there who will whip out there condition 1 weapon to check holster fit or to see if it will fit in a case, etc. That's the reason why they want the weapon cleared.

    I don't know what they'll do when they open the range, but the store I mentioned that just moved requires you to check your weapon at the counter when you walk in and they tag it. All of their guns for sale have sensor tags on them, different colors for used and new, then they have another color for guns going to the gunsmith and another for customer guns. They tag it and hand it back to you. You get the tag removed when you leave.

    Normally, I just leave it concealed.

    There's another store I've been to that just sells gear. It's not a surplus store, but they sell tactical gear, holsters, knives, OC, etc. Everything except guns.

    They have a sign that says, basically, "We respect the 2nd amendment and your right to carry; we only ask that you not handle loaded guns in the store. If you are going to be trying holsters, please clear your gun before entering the store." I think that's the most reasonable one I've seen.
     
  13. Donn

    Donn Active Member

    The stores I frequent here have the same policy, (signs posted). If you're carrying, do not draw your weapon in the store under any circumstance. Like someone mentioned above, all the counter help are packing. At best, you'll be asked to leave and never come back. At worst, well, you know what worst would be.
     
  14. MarinewithaGlock

    MarinewithaGlock Premium Member

    I went into the larger guns tore again today in shorts and a polo with my 23 in a Serpa to sell an AR-15. Half of the time my shirt was halfway over the Glock and the other half of the time it in plain sight and no one said anything. I even lifted my shirt in front of an employee and another customer looking at handguns because they weren't sure about Glocks. I guess the just pick and choose when to ask to unload. I noticed none of their employees were OCing which I thought was odd for a gun store.

    I'm going back tomorrow to shoot and I'll have it in my Serpa again so I'll see what they say.
     
  15. jln370

    jln370 Member

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    Here in Texas you can put up your own signs as much as you want, but unless you have the penal code 30.06 sign, they don't mean sh*t
     
  16. MarinewithaGlock

    MarinewithaGlock Premium Member

    Went into the big store again today and the only comment that was made was an employee asked me how I like my 23. Never asked to unload or anything. Maybe it was a fluke occurrence at this store. I guess time will tell.
     
  17. Might be one of those things that the larger stores which have a range mentioned in OP's post may be required by their range's insurer to ask people to not carry loaded firearms into the building. Maybe cooler heads in the store are prevailing because they realize more than their insurers that a holstered and untouched weapon is a SAFE weapon, and have decided not to make people draw their weapons to unload because of the chance of a NG.

    Making someone clear their carry weapon is exponentially more dangerous than just letting people keep their condition 1 firearms holstered, thus SAFE because the triggers are covered. Soon as stores start asking folks to put hands on their guns in order to unload and make them 'safe', they're gonna have a crap ton of people not used to unholstering and unloading their weapons in a public place doing so. Recipe for problems!

    Hey MarinewithaGlock, could you ask your stores if they ask people to go condition 4 because of range insurance reasons? I'm going to my LGS/range today and will do the same. I don't even know if my LGS/range has a 'please unload' policy if you are CCW (I never tell anyone when I am carrying, ever), but they've never asked me if I am carrying, and I'm not about to tell them if I am.

    I'm thinking the reply from my LGS will be along the lines of 'we have to ask people to unload their firearm if we know someone is carrying because of the range's liability insurance protocols, but we don't want to offend customers by asking them if they are carrying so we are constantly forgetting to ask. Oops.'

    Will post the LGS take on things tonight after taking my G30 and Sig P226 9mm out for some range time.
     
  18. Well, went to my LGS/range today and had a great time! Asked the gentlemen at the counter their policy about unloading firearms before entering the building, and they said if you are carrying a gun into the store that is not your CCW (something you are bringing in for trade, repair, or for using at their range), it must be unloaded and in a case of some sort for safety reasons. They also said that if you are carrying concealed, they have no issue with it being in condition 1, and they don't feel it necessary to ask anyone to disclose if they are carrying concealed. The only problem comes up when someone enters the store carrying concealed who wants to shoot that concealed firearm in their range or if there's a possibility of needing to draw the carry weapon (say to try the fit of a new holster), in which case they ask you to treat your concealed carry like any other firearm brought to the range - empty and holstered before entering the building.

    The explanation (and distinction that I never made between carrying a non CCW gun into the building loaded, and your actual CCW - the thought of bringing a range gun into the building already loaded is so alien to me that it never crossed my mind that someone might need to be told not to do this) seemed perfectly reasonable, and I thanked them for helping me to better understand.
     
  19. MarinewithaGlock

    MarinewithaGlock Premium Member

    I talked to both gun stores yesterday and I was given very similar answers. Basically insurance liability and they don't know who has the knowledge and training to handle weapons so they prefer them to be unloaded in the store. I suggested an outdoor clearing barrel to both stores and they both thought that would be an excellent idea that they would forward up their chain.
     
  20. I get why they do it, but just like the "no firearms allowed" signs I have zero intention of listening lol.

    The barrel is a very good idea.