First aid

Discussion in 'Second Amendment & Legal' started by BLCKWLF, Feb 21, 2012.

  1. BLCKWLF

    BLCKWLF GrassHopper

    Question I seldom find discussed... In the event of firing your weapon in self/home defense, do you offer first aid to the now neutralized assailant? Legal ramifications? Good Samaritan law?
     
  2. Happysniper1

    Happysniper1 New Member

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    What is the first rule for a first responder?
    --> make sure the situation is safe.

    Is it "safe" if you just had to shoot someone to stop a deadly-force threat upon your person?
    --> No.

    Do you (or must you) render first aid or CPR on someone you have just shot?
    --> No.

    We discuss this very thing in our FA classes. Your first and foremost duty is to your own security, you just shot the guy because he was threatening you, for God's sakes! (exact words we use in class)....you do not know if he has another weapon, you do not know if he has accomplices out of your field of view, you do not know if he is faking it (or is about to emerge from the impact shock), you know nothing about this person that forced you into a position where the only possible way to save yourself was to shoot him.

    No. It is not required by law. It does not make sense. Watch out for your own security first and foremost.
     

  3. BLCKWLF

    BLCKWLF GrassHopper

    I know that it is not required by law, however some may think it would better their odds in a crimminal case, that they did try to save his live.
    On the note of the good samaratin law, it only applies if you did not inflict the injuries. On similar topic, shooting to wound or scare?
     
  4. bhale187

    bhale187 New Member Supporter

    Check your local laws, I can't imagine you being required to perform first aid, unless you are a first responder. That said, doing first aid would sure help your cause if you get sued later.
     
  5. BLCKWLF

    BLCKWLF GrassHopper

    I am not sure about helping your case in court, but what you said about being a first responder, I am planning in getting my EMT certification, how would this apply to a self/home defense situation? I can't imagine having to give first aid to a man that just tried to kill me. On duty versus off duty?
     
  6. brutusvk

    brutusvk New Member

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    Like was said before you must make sure you are safe. So wait for officers and medical to arrive. And let's hope you (and anyone else we know) are never in that situation.
     
  7. Happysniper1

    Happysniper1 New Member

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    Neither. You are shooting to STOP a threat. You are neither specifically shooting to kill, wound, or scare (by the way, shooting to scare means an unaimed shot, opens you up to criminal liability in jurisdictions that do not allow warning shots). Hope that helps.

    Exactly.

    I tell our FA students these helpful tips:

    1. Think it through, before you are faced with that situation, if you can really take a human life. It is easy to deal with it in the abstract (why do you think silhouette targets are faceless? to dehumanize the "threat" and turn him into a "target"). Target papers with faces often depict angry "I'm gonna eat your eyes out" badguys, which psychologically makes it easier for us to go on the defensive. But think about it, and think about what you will do after pulling the trigger. That first shot will forever change your life, and will be the most expensive bullet you have ever fired.

    2. I our class, I show pictures of the head wound injuries. Excessively graphic? Absolutely! But you need to prepare yourself mentally for what you may see on the ground before you.

    3. Make sure YOU are the first to call 911. There is some debate as to what to say, exactly, to the 911 operator after you just shot someone, but be prepared to say that you do not feel it is safe to approach the person, that you do not feel it is safe for you to check vitals.

    Even as a trained first-responder, in a situation like this, you are a victim first and foremost.

    In my humble opinion, if I just had to shoot someone to prevent him from attacking me or mine, he can bleed out and die for all I care, he came at me first! And if I did it to protect others, like family or friends, I will keep reminding myself that this is a moral lesson that they can watch and learn from: crime does not pay, and while I may not be around forever, as long as Daddy is around, Daddy will do all he can to protect you!

    It would also help to know very well the laws in your jurisdiction, especially laws defining justifiable or excusable homicide, lawful self-defense in the home, lawful self-defense in public, and any laws addressing your potential liability as the shooter.
     
  8. iGlock

    iGlock Lead Farmer

    I was told in my ccw class which was taught by an ex lapd/ex military that in AZ if you shoot someone in self defense you must kill them or they can sue you for shooting them.
     
  9. Happysniper1

    Happysniper1 New Member

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    In NV (and I have posted this before), if the shooting falls within the criteria of Justifiable Homicide or Excusable Homicide, then the shooter is by law protected from civil suit for personal injury or wrongful death of the person killed or injured EVEN IF THE KILLING/INJURING WAS ACCIDENTAL as in the case of an innocent bystander.

    There are many instances where this clause has been used to protect the shooter. This is case law.

    One thing, though, that NV law is strict on: civilians MAY NOT PURSUE WITH FORCE. We have case law where a homeowner, upon arriving home (this is in Las Vegas, Clark County), found his rear (glass) doors smashed, and confronted 2 intruders in his house. He fired one shot, mortally wounding one intruder (classic case of castle doctrine and a justifiable shoot), but chased the other intruder on foot down the street where two blocks later he fired another shot and killed the second intruder. Poor guy was initially charged with Open Murder, but was plead down to Manslaughter in the First Degree. After spending about 2 years in jail, he is finally out, but his guns are gone forever, as is his right to ever own a gun again.

    Back to the OP, we also have case law where an off-duty nurse (in Winnemucca, NV) was being carjacked in his (not her) car. Shots fired. Bad guy down. Nurse informs 911 of the incident, drives 1/2 block away, awaits police. Bad guy expired from multiple gunshot wounds to the torso. Not once did the nurse (read 'VICTIM!") check vitals or initiate life-saving procedures. Ruling was justifiable homicide. No arrest. No charges.

    I'm not saying this is the same everywhere, only using these as examples of how the law is on your side provided you meet the legal criteria for a justified shoot.
     
  10. BLCKWLF

    BLCKWLF GrassHopper

    That is not true!

    13-413. No civil liability for justified conduct
    No person in this state shall be subject to civil liability for engaging in conduct otherwise justified pursuant to the provisions of this chapter.

    13-420. Attorney fees; costs
    The court shall award reasonable attorney fees, costs, compensation for lost income and all expenses incurred by a defendant in the defense of any civil action based on conduct otherwise justified pursuant to this chapter if the defendant prevails in the civil action.
     
  11. BLCKWLF

    BLCKWLF GrassHopper

    Do you have the case info, or a link? I like getting information but, like my post, please give some credibility, though I am sure you are right. Victim first, that sounds logical. In AZ you don't have to shoot to kill, as long as it is justified, technically you can shoot to wound. However, it is called lethal force for a reason.
     
  12. Happysniper1

    Happysniper1 New Member

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    @iGlock:

    Not sure of how it is in your jurisdiction, but I would imagine it is similar to mine: When you are allowed the legal use of deadly force, your body reacts in milliseconds once you have decided on fight-or-flight. Over here, you are allowed panic-fire (meaning you can empty your magazine), but to deliver a coup-de-grace is manslaughter.

    In an incident in the fringes south of town, in like 2000 or 2001, there was an armed robbery (knifepoint) in a commercial parking lot area. Victim was already injured by the attacker and pulls out a gun and panic-fires several shots, injuring the knife-wielding attacker, who goes down. Citizen walks up to attacker and shoots him in the head. It was caught on surveillance cameras in the parking lot. Citizen was charged with Open Murder, later plead down to Manslaughter in the First Degree, mandatory minium 20 years in jail.
     
  13. Happysniper1

    Happysniper1 New Member

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    @Blackwolffcf:
    Sorry, I do not have the case numbers, dates names and places on me.
     
  14. BLCKWLF

    BLCKWLF GrassHopper

    @happysniper1

    You have contradicted yourself, sort of.

    You just said that a manslaughter in the first degree is a mandatory 20 years but in a previous post on this thread you said a guy got off with the same plea after two years.

    Obviously it's not mandatory 20 years then?
     
  15. Happysniper1

    Happysniper1 New Member

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    The first mentioned case (in Las Vegas), the charge was Manslaughter in the First Degree, and thru various pleadings he is not in the slammer. He is still subject to court proceedings but is not in prison. By the way, a next door neighbor of this this guy is a good friend of mine.

    Second case (headshot guy) was out-and-out charged and convicted.
     
  16. BLCKWLF

    BLCKWLF GrassHopper

    Good lawyer?

    I apologize if I come off as rude, demanding, or like a smart a**. Believe me, if I were meaning to be that way, you would have no doubts.

    You know of any cases were someone provided first aid to an attacker?
     
  17. Happysniper1

    Happysniper1 New Member

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    None that I know of in Northern Nevada. Zip. Zero. Zilch.
     
  18. Happysniper1

    Happysniper1 New Member

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    Just for general fund of knowledge, another thing I teach in FA classes is this:

    When drawing from holster to address a target already within 21 feet, begin shooting low, and continue to fire several rounds.

    The groin and hip area is a valid target, not because of the sex of the attacker, but because a bullet shattering the pelvis will collapse the structure of the hip joint needed to continue the attack. As a one- or two-shot attack stopper, it will drop an attacker, regardless of height, weight, physical agility, or whether the attacker is on drugs and/or alcohol or not. It will drop the bad guy, but does not guarantee he will not shoot back if armed. Thing is, it gives you those precious seconds to create distance from the threat.

    As a bonus, nick the femoral artery and the bad guy bleeds out before police or EMS can get there! :D
     
  19. Happysniper1

    Happysniper1 New Member

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    @Blackwolffcf:
    In the first instance, the guy was able to get a legal team from NRA to help, but later continued with a private lawyer (read expensive).

    The second instance, it was a public defender.
     
  20. BLCKWLF

    BLCKWLF GrassHopper

    Mmhmm... Gotta love the NRA!