Condition Three and Your Glock, what do you do?

  1. Is there a best way to carry your gun? Do you have a round chambered or no? Why would you have a round in the pipe? Why wouldn\'t you, isn\'t that dangerous? Well let us talk about that.

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    What is Condition 3?

    Modern semi-automatic handguns are carried in one of three different modes when loaded. These conditions are numbered 1-3. Condition One is a term basically used for a single action handgun such as a Browning Hi Power or Colt 1911 in which the hammer has to be cocked and locked with a manual safety on a loaded chamber to fire. Since Glocks are double action only striker fired guns, this isn\'t an option for us. The only exception to this rule would be for a gun modified with an aftermarket manual external safety that was set on a loaded chamber. Condition 2 is generally a loaded chamber and the pistol ready to fire when the trigger is pulled. Condition 3 is a loaded mag inserted in the pistol, but no round in the chamber. This is also sometimes called the Israeli Method or the Israeli Technique, as urban legend has it that the IDF carries in this manner.

    Of course, some purists will argue that a Glock is only ever in Condition 0 or Condition 3 due to its trigger system, but for the sake of argument, let\'s just go with the idea that Condition 3 has a loaded mag, but no round in the chamber, which is the main subject of this article.

    This debate comes up often on the forums here often.

    Pros of C3

    Those who argue for Condition 3 do so usually for reasons of safety. If a gun falls to the ground in CA, it\'s virtually impossible to go off since there is not a striker poised over a live round\'s primer. Likewise, if the gun is stripped away from the user, lost, or otherwise found by someone not familiar with it, simply pulling the trigger will not cause a round to be fired. The slide must be racked before the gun is capable of firing. It cannot be argued that C3 isn\'t safe, since the gun is never fully loaded until this is done.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eDtt-zwg_o

    A video supporting C3 carry with a Glock.

    This style of carry is often mandated in military, law enforcement and force protection when rules of engagement/SOP are very strict and/or levels of training are low. I have worked several federal contracts and have seen at least one LE agency where this was the case. It can also help reduce accidental discharges caused by triggers being pulled by drawstrings or worn holsters.

    Cons against C3 carry

    In a defense situation, the basic rule of thumb is to be able to draw from a holster, rotate the muzzle out to the target, and engage with a round within three seconds. Two is better. This means the faster you are, the more likely it will be that you will walk away from the encounter rather than be wheeled away afterward. Drawing a halfway loaded firearm means that time is inevitably wasted is chambering that round.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syxrpLbaEuY#t=20

    A video showing why C3 can put you behind the 8-ball fast.

    Of course, this can be mitigated with lots of training, but you counter this with the possibility that you won\'t be able to use both hands in your draw-- if for instance, you are pushing someone away with your off hand, or it\'s damaged already. This means that if you carry in C3, you need to train to be able to chamber a round using your strong hand only. This can be done on the heel of a shoe, across the chest (be prepared for slide burn and always keep that finger off the trigger), or on a belt or the holster itself. You work with what you got.

    When you are under stress that extra step can cost you time, which can cost you a lot. Racking the slide takes time, no matter how you argue it. It also allows a chance for the weapon to jam when you very least need it to.

    In the end, the Condition Glock choice is yours.

    What choice do you make? Let us know below.
     
    Goldchucker likes this.
  2. organdblk

    organdblk New Member

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    Ready to fire when drawn..........
     

  3. OnTheFly

    OnTheFly New Member

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    Always a lot of "what ifs" in this debate, but I keep a round in chamber while CCing. The reason? More than likely, I will need my off hand to commit to other tasks - pushing an attacker away, sweeping my wife/kid behind me, etc.
     
  4. Ernest

    Ernest Gen4 G27, G23, G42 and G40mos

    I think there are times for both. I would venture a guess that in most cases the chances of accidental discharge is higher than one being attacked during their normal routine. Of course that would not include some circumstances where people live in dangerous neighborhoods or certain specific situations. I train condition 3 just in case with a little practice it does not take long to draw, rack and put 3 center mass. Also remember in most videos you do not see the victim move as the attacker closes ground. Movement is key and will buy you more than enough time to rack. That said I have no issue carrying one chambered when necessary. I like to train for the worst case.
     
  5. jefro36

    jefro36 Active Member

    GLOCK cocked and ready to ROCK!!
     
  6. jbbooks

    jbbooks New Member

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    One in the pipe. Practice daily drawing with gun empty.
     
  7. druryj

    druryj New Member

    One in the chamber.
     
  8. jerryboy

    jerryboy New Member

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    I carry in condition 3. I have practiced the draw and slide rack, and the trade off for safety is worth it to me.
     
  9. jimihemi

    jimihemi New Member

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    One in the chamber; seconds count!
     
  10. NRABenefactor

    NRABenefactor Glock Professional

    Read the owners manual.
     
  11. There is no such thing as an "accidental" discharge. Its called negligence! If you aren't responsible enough to have trigger discipline and keep a finger or other object away from the trigger, leave the gun at home and on the range. Defensive carry weapons need to work quickly, and simply. Having to rack a round into the chamber gives the advantage to the attacker, and removes it from the defender.
     
  12. nymike

    nymike New Member

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    @jerryboy Do you not trust yourself to keep your finger off the trigger? Guns don't go boom by themselves...
     
  13. First off, do you carry a double action revolver with an empty chamber? I doubt it. If not, then why would you carry a DAO, striker fired semi-auto any differently? The motions required to fire the piece are exactly the same. Second, in most SD situations, the bad guy(s) already have the advantage since they have already decided you are a target. Why would you add to that advantage by drawing an unprepared weapon? Situational awareness is more than just looking for and recognizing a threat. It's also about knowing at all times the location and condition of your weapon.
     
  14. ncnrmedic

    ncnrmedic New Member

    If you own a Glock there is no reason other than a lack of training and familiarity that would make carrying unloaded (and I'm sorry, but that's what it is) a wise move. Glocks have 3 different safeties designed to prevent the "accidental (negligent) discharge". I have seen 4 instances of a Glock being fired when not intended to. Not once was it the weapon. I have seen a loaded Glock 17 thrown on the ground, dropped from every angle, and basically tortured trying to induce a discharge. The safeties on this Gen 2, older than dirt and worse-looking Glock worked every time without fail. So if your Gen 4, barely seen 200 rounds through it Glock discharges, I'm gonna put my money on user error.
     
  15. tavm

    tavm New Member

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    There's honestly no right or wrong answer, and it has nothing to do with training when someone makes a decision one way or the other. But lot's of "gun guys" like to make themselves feel like they're "more gun educated" by saying this. Sorry, but that's what it is. People carry their guns in all sorts of situations. While the need to use a weapon can happen anytime and anywhere, there's going to be times when occurrences will be more likely than others. We don't live in a war zone and not everyone lives in the bad neighborhoods where muggings occur every other minute. Not everyone walks in the alleys at night...and not everyone feels the need to have a cartridge in the chamber when they're at say...a kid's birthday party or in a crowded room where the gun might be lifted. So C3 is fine for some people...and contrary to your belief that they lack training, they must actually train in the c3 carry method consistently to be able to present and fire without any noticeable delay in time. Personally, I carry in both C0 (what you guys call C2) and C3. Just depends on the environment and I practice drawing in both ways. I don't get confused because I know which way I'm carrying and when.
     
  16. tavm

    tavm New Member

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    @Centexshooter DAO revolver trigger: 10 lbs DAO pistol trigger: 3.5-5 lbs If you feel that you're the perfect human being that you will NEVER make a mistake when holstering or handling your weapon, then you won't have a problem with c0 carry. Some people understand that humans are fallible, and things can and do happen even to professionals who are trained to handle firearms. Because of this understanding, those people prefer to stick with the carry condition 3, which is indeed the prescribed method of carry for many military and professional entities.
     
  17. LoneStarTexian

    LoneStarTexian Remember, our government prefers us to be SSD (Sto

    Condition 2 or leave it at home. Ok, a compromise to those who don't trust their finger: try the Saf-T-Blok : almost as fast as bare trigger
     
  18. scott226

    scott226 New Member

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    Not much good if there isn't one in the chamber. Odds are you wont see the attacker until he's in front of you. Training is everything so if you cant trust your own finger to stay off the trigger maybe you need more training before you carry..
     
  19. Mike1968CoronetRT

    Mike1968CoronetRT New Member

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    I know of No LEO agency that carries in condition 3 which I would never carry, at the range I could understand it. We run a hot range during qualifications.
     
  20. joecarp

    joecarp New Member

    Mike, I strongly agree with you, someone can run 21 feet very fast. I don't want to see if I can draw and rip back that slide before someone with a knife, bottle, or club. I think once you are trained in that manner,it becomes 2nd nature. Both times, in the line of duty, by the time I cleared leather I would never had enough time to charge my weapon.