Concealed Carry with one in the chamber?

Discussion in 'Conceal & Open Carry' started by LONEWOLF, Dec 13, 2011.

  1. fls348

    fls348 New Member



    If your carrying C3 because of paranoia of and ND, I seriously can't think of a better example of incompetence.
     
  2. rivalarrival

    rivalarrival Are we there yet?

    That just indicates a lack of imagination on your part. The confident lunatic I just mentioned serves as a far better example of incompetence. But I suspect you're using hyperbole.

    You may be right - paranoia may indicate a lack of competency. I wouldn't consider a person concerned to the level of paranoia to be incompetent to use firearms in general, but he might be incompetent to carry for self defense.

    However, a prudent concern about AD/ND does not indicate incompetence. A competent person will not jam an unknown gun into an unknown holster and confidently assume that he is carrying safely. A competent person will test weapon, holster, carry method, and related equipment, and become confident in their use and deployment before relying on them.

    I will go so far as to say that a person who relies solely on the word of other people about the safety of C1 carry (without conducting his own real-world testing to prove it to himself) is dangerously incompetent. I will also go so far as to say that encouraging people to do this by belittling or denigrating them for doing otherwise is reckless, irresponsible, and paints gun ownership and use in a bad light.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2012

  3. sgt966

    sgt966 New Member

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    Chamber round

    I carry a full load including one in the chamber. One round could make the differeance between life and death
     
  4. BLCKWLF

    BLCKWLF GrassHopper

    Got 30 rounds in the two mags and one in the chamber. I'd toss it off a cliff in confidence that it won't go off! Unless you pull the trigger, aint nothing gunna happen.
     
  5. fls348

    fls348 New Member

    1) Prudent concern is perfectly acceptable.
    What I disagree with is anyone carrying a gun when that person is not 100% familiar and confident with all of their equipment. If you don't know your gun, holster, etc. inside and out, back and forth you shouldn't carry it. Someone not confident in themselves and with their equipment and still chooses to carry is, in my opinion, acting recklessly.

    2) When or where did anyone ever say someone should rely solely on someone else's word? That would be insanity, the person who the relies solely on others without doing their homework is a statistic waiting to happen.

    3) Go to the range practice, practice, practice. Go home and dry-fire, practice drawing from a concealed position, try drawing with different clothing on. But for god sake don't carry the damn thing until your confident first in your own ability and with your equipment. And of course once your confident and competent put one in the chamber, all the cool kids are doing it................
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2012
  6. BLCKWLF

    BLCKWLF GrassHopper

    ditto!!!!!
     
  7. Happysniper1

    Happysniper1 New Member

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    He's right. Misplaced confidence (or misguided overconfidence) is one thing. Measurable competence is another.

    My own thoughts:

    Full magazine, one in the chamber, holstered, at all times. One of the reasons I carry a Glock is there is no separate manual external safety to mess around with. In a proper holster (one that covers the trigger guard), accidentally depressing the trigger is simply not gonna happen.

    A Glock will NOT fire unless sufficient rearward pressure is placed on the trigger, first to release the manual safety arm, and then to release the striker. There is no such thing as an AD with a Glock. Put a round in the chamber, put a finger in the trigger, squeeze, and she goes BANG.

    Anything else is a question of training, and more importantly, practice. In Training, proper methods are shown. But without practice, muscle memory is not developed, and it is possible to fumble with a pistol -any pistol, even a Glock- when drawing from holster, possibly resulting in a Negligent Discharge. It is not a problem of the gun, it functioned as it was designed to do. It was a miscommunication between the brain and the index finger. Nothing more, nothing less.

    I encourage shooters to safely practice, practice, practice. There is no substitute for constant dry-fire practice. With practice, competence develops, and the spectre of an ND fades further and further away into the shadows.

    At the same time, I respect shooters who choose to carry with an empty chamber. They are perhaps aware of their limitations, and that's fine with me, because I will always be ready to fire if the situation dictated it. Plus, when I run out of ammo, I can always get theirs :D (that was only a joke, by the way).

    I have other pistols. But since I have chosen to standardize my carry style to a Glock in C1, I need to "remind my finger to release" the safety on any of my other guns, should I choose to carry any of the other. That's also why I love my Beretta 92G: just a decocker, no safety. First round is a long DA pull. But no safety lever.

    There is a reason that Glocks are called SAFE ACTION PISTOLS.
     
  8. fls348

    fls348 New Member

    Quote: "You're equating confidence and competence, and I think that is dangerous"

    1st, How am I equating these two?

    con·fi·dent/ˈkänfidənt/

    Feeling or showing confidence in oneself; self-assured.
    Feeling or showing certainty about something.

    com·pe·tence (kmp-tns)

    1. The state or quality of being adequately or well qualified; ability. See Synonyms at ability.
    b. A specific range of skill, knowledge, or ability.
    2. Law The quality or condition of being legally qualified to perform an act.
    3. Sufficient means for a comfortable existence.


    2nd, Why is it dangerous?

    I'm really not sure what point your trying to make, would you care to clarify?
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2012
  9. Kmurray96

    Kmurray96 Well-Known Member Supporter

    Actually, a high percentage of a Glock (which is a DAO weapon) ND is re-holstering. People either unpracticed or distracted put their fingers in the whammy hole and when the holster contacts the finger...BANG!

    We just had one with a H&K variant 7 (LE/DAO, no external safety) during shift change in a jail tower. The relieving officer, instead of putting on his holster, counting his rounds, reloading his mags, reloading his gun, chambering a round, then putting the gun in the holster, instead made his gun hot and while yakking with the other officer, and attempted to slide the gun in the holster with the holster in his hand. The resulting BOOM ricochet'd three times and embedded into a window frame. The officers were not injured but a Granny Smith apple was shot dead. Thankfully, there was pulverized apple and not brains all over the inside of the tower.

    My point is, both these officers had 10+ years on the job. They were experienced, practiced and certified qualified in the proper use of hand guns. BUT, they were too busy B/S'ing and not paying attention.

    So, practice is very important, but once that gun is in your hand, attention is job one. Nothing, short of an explosion, is going to make your Glock, or that H&K, for that matter, go BOOM unless your finger is on the trigger.

    That's the fact, Jack, because the department tested that H&K damn near to destruction to make sure it was "officer negligence" that caused it to go off. And it was a weapon that had already been cycled through the range, so it was well worn and a lot of wear and tear could not even get it to go off.

    So, carrying one in the chamber is safe. It's the safety between the ears that matters.
     
  10. BLCKWLF

    BLCKWLF GrassHopper

    Ditto again...
     
  11. I have taken many tactical classes at Frontsight with my Glock 23, and we train with one in the chamber, and we train to pull from conceal, and put 2 to center mass in 1.5 seconds. One thing I TOTLALLY agree with, anyone that Carris concealed should be well trained, and keep up with that muscle memory training. I go to Frontsight minimum once a year, and average twice a year, rotating handgun, shotgun, and practical rifle...the training is outstanding. Bottom line, you're weapon should be ready to rock, or your wasting your time carrying.
     
  12. glock fu master

    glock fu master Junior Member

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTalnzcO0xk[/ame]
     
  13. rivalarrival

    rivalarrival Are we there yet?

    I'm going to leave it at this: Confidence is a supremely stupid metric to gauge competence, or any aspect of it. Yes, a person should be confident that their equipment is going to perform correctly, and that they themselves will perform correctly, but confidence does not guarantee, does not even imply either. That lunatic I've mentioned repeatedly was completely confident, as are gang bangers and armed criminals. Again, confidence is a profoundly idiotic and dangerous metric to associate with competency.

    Your statement is this:
    "If one isn't confident enough to carry with one in the chamber I maintain that person isn't competent enough to carry."

    Confidence does not imply competency, nor does competency require that one be completely confident that a carry gun won't self-discharge. A *lack* of confidence is a far better indicator of safe-handling competency.

    Again, my position is that safety is paramount but C1 is the "standard". Anyone choosing not to carry C1 should have a very good reason for doing so. If you have that reason, by all means carry C3.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2012
  14. fls348

    fls348 New Member


    OK, we'll agree to disagree then.
    I don't think you can have confidence without competence.
    If you don't have both you shouldn't be carrying a gun, period.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2012
  15. cmiddleton

    cmiddleton New Member

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    Starting to remind me why I have never stayed around gun forums too long.

    Some people do carry one in the chamber, some don't. A whole bunch of reasons to justify either.

    And then a lot of judgmental people come along and the put downs start over differences of opinion.

    I don't care if you wear it unloaded your hat, so long as you figured out a way to do it safely and you are not jeopardizing everyone else.

    If you carry at all I hope you had a class where another person at least saw you shoot and trusted you with a firearm in your hand. After that, your style is your business. As long as it is safe for all.

    Until Jesus floats down from heaven and tells us if we should chamber one, I can say either way is YOUR choice and I have no opinion.
     
  16. liz0262

    liz0262 New Member

    One in the chamber - or why bother??
     
  17. Trotac

    Trotac New Member

    For those that carry without a loaded chamber... Do you train (a lot) on one handed manipulations? I can imagine a whole lot of civilian scenarios where one hand might be occupied while the other gets the gun... What is your plan, if that is the case and do you practice executing it? If you personally have one (a plan) GOOD ON YOU, but most people I run into (Israelis aside) that carry an empty chamber fall more into the "I'm afraid I'll shoot myself" crowd. That crowd also seems to be the "I bought a gun and I carry a gun but I never train with my gun" crowd.

    If anyone needs some drills to work on like that, google or YouTube "injured officer drills". Or, self teach... Handcuff or zip-tie one arm to your belt the next time you go to the range. Then figure out how to run the gun efficiently on your own. (racking the slide on the edge of a holster, in the bend of a knee, etc.)

    (so yes, I carry with a round chambered.)
     
  18. LOL...I think we're getting into a semantics argument...technically speaking, you can be incompetent and have ALL the confidence in the world...I know a few people just like that...they see a few Clint Eastwood movies and then go buy a .44 magnum...put 25 rounds down at the local range, and think they know what they're doin'...that's the dangerous type we should ALL be concerned about. I'm 100% 2nd amendment, and I believe in being able to carry a weapon, but I also think it should require more than just a written test and shooting a few rounds at a paper target in a relaxed atmosphere. I think training is crucial to firearms safety....we all need to train under stress, because the fact is when the SHTF, we WILL be stressed and we lose 50% of our capacity in that stressful situation...only through constant training and muscle memory can we be assured some relative competence. That's not a slam on anybody, and I submit this respectfully....I also believe that a well trained person can competently and confidently carry concealed with one in the chamber.:):cool:
     
  19. fls348

    fls348 New Member

    That's kind of my point; If you don't have BOTH confidence and competence I don't think you should carry, period.

    I'm well aware of ppl whom have one without the other and in my opinion those ppl don't need to be armed.

    I'm all for the 2nd Amend. but your right, a whole lot more than some half-ass test should be given. The guys that ought to be carrying should be and are, but there should be a better system in place to weed out the incompetency.
     
  20. series11

    series11 Hail Commifornia Lifetime Supporting Member

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    When at home I even carry one in the chamber. I agree with you ODG34. I used to leave it empty thinking like may others that the racking of the gun will scare the intruder, but I was instructed that this was freaking stupid for many of reasons in the posts listed so far.