Has anyone had trouble firing +P+ .40 cal ammo from the manufacture with their Gen 3 Glock 23 or 27 weapons and if so what did you do to resolve this issue?
Thanks, thats a new one to me. Sounds like some nasty stuff, 1300fps on a 155gr 40cal is a zinger, about the same as Buffalo Bore.It is ammo purchased from Georgia Arms new ammo. I wanted to see if anyone has fired this ammo in particular.
This, there is no +P in .40 let alone +P+. Either they are lying to you or endangering your life.There are two types of +p+ rounds, those in 9mm and those that some moron company releases in another caliber. It is incredibly dangerous and you should never purchase any + rounds unless it is 9mm
They are defn lying. There is no +P or +P+ for .40 as the chamber design is not made for the pressure you would see it in.This, there is no +P in .40 let alone +P+. Either they are lying to you or endangering your life.
I'm sure, though I really expect better of GA arms. They're generally very good with both product and customer service.They label them that way for marketing, because most people do not know.
Thanks jon61jonm61 said:I'm sure, though I really expect better of GA arms. They're generally very good with both product and customer service.
I sent them an email last night, basically asking what they're thinking by labelling these that way. I told them that the topic has come up on a gun board, with conventional wisdom being never shoot anything without a SAAMI spec.
I also went through all of their +P & +P+ .40s and compared them to Speer's factory loads.
Their +P 155gr load is identical at 1200fps. The +P 165gr is actually loaded lighter than Speer's, 1100 at GA vs 1150 at Speer. The +P 180 gr is a whopping 25fps faster than Speer's, 1050 vs. 1025.
They only offer +P+ in 155gr at 1300fps. I don't know that an extra 100fps could be called +P, much less +P+. In a 155gr, it's really not that big of a difference.
So, realistically, none of these loads should be a problem to shoot.
Thanks for asking the question, so many folks just want to trashour concept without giving us a chance to explain our reasoning.
We have done an extensive amount of testing on the Speer GoldDot bullets both for pressure and velocity (P&V) and projectile expansionin various media. The velocities we have listed for each bullet weight are,what we believe, to be the best compromise between velocity, pressure,expansion and controllability of subsequent shots fired from the firearm. Where we have marketed a load at a pressure slightly above standard and called it a+P, it was because; to lower the pressure resulted in a reduction in velocity that significantly reduced bullet upset in a particular media. The +P+ load that we offer shows a significant increase in energy and bullet upset over the +P version and we added it at the insistence of some of our law enforcement customers who had tested this load for their departments.
Our velocities are measured from a service firearm, not a P&V barrel which could explain the velocity difference noted between ours and Speer's loads. Speer's data is from a test fixture which, generally speaking, tend to give a slightly higher velocity than a service gun. We are well aware that SAAMI does not list a +p or +p+ load for 40 S&W, and for those folks that are cautious about shooting anything warmer than standard loads, I understand that and would not argue that they should try them. You always want to be comfortable with the load in your weapon. I will say that we have tested these loads extensively in house and have sold millions of them, and have seen no reason to believe that these loads are not safe in any well-made firearm that is chambered for 40 S&W.
Our intent in labeling the loads as we did was not to mislead our customers as many seem to think, but to be perfectly honest in letting them know that these loads produce slightly more pressure than SAAMI specs, which is 35,000 PSI maximum average, for the 40 S&W. You may have individual rounds exceed this pressure, in testing as long as the average of all rounds fired stays at 35,000 PSI or below.
Our 155 grain load averages 36,500 PSI, which as you point out, is not very much hotter than standard. The question is; should we produce the load at this level, which we know to exceed the SAAMI spec, and not let the customer know they are shooting something above 35,000 PSI? Or should we let them know? We used the guidelines set by SAAMI for the 9mm cartridge as it also operates at 35,000 PSI. Now before you draw the obvious conclusion that the 40 S&W is a different cartridge than the 9mm and the data will not compare, let me assure you that all we used was the percentage gap from standard to the upper limit of +p which is 10%. In 9mm, anything that averages 35,000 and under, is standard pressure, 35,001 to 38,500, is +p, anything over 38,500 is +p+. That is the system we use to label our values as either +p or +P+.
Our +P+ load at 1300 FPS, as you point out, is not much over +p, but it averages 39,000 PSI, so, in my mind, to be absolutely honest, you have to call it a +P+ as it is well above the beginning of the +p pressures and, in fact, our own +p load. Perhaps the issue is a misconception that to be in the +P range, a load must be significantly higher in pressure than standard, when in fact, if a particular lot of ammo averages ONE PSI over the maximum limit, it should be labeled +P, according to SAAMI standards for the 9mm.
In any case, I hope this helps you to understand why we have chosen to label our 40 S&W loads as we have and why our numbers on velocity might not line up exactly with Speer. Please let me know if you have any further questions, I will be glad to answer.
I know from past experience that many folks will continue to call us names for selling a product that does not conform to SAMMI specs. I would remind them of two things; 1) SAAMI compliance is voluntary not mandatory, 2) if everyone always stayed inside their guidelines, we would have missed out on some pretty darn good cartridges, in fact, two of my favorites come to mind, the 25-06 and the 44 Magnum. While I would agree that it is not safe for the average reloader to take matters into their own hands as they do not have access to pressure test equipment and the resources to test thousands of rounds, I would think that as we have access to both, it would be acceptable for us to load what we feel is a safe load, especially as we have been making our living as an ammunition manufacturer for over 30 years now. We mostly know, by now, what works and what does not.
Thank you for your support and please let me know if there is anything further I can do for you.