Carry Ammo Threads merged here:

Discussion in 'Conceal & Open Carry' started by wsar10, Dec 6, 2011.

  1. rimshaker

    rimshaker New Member

    Sorry what i shoulda said was...using 9mm for example... i rather use regular 147gn instead of say 124gn +p since the 147 will penetrate deeper given its heavier weight. Ballistics charts for the Ranger T-series hav shown this.
  2. Jerremy

    Jerremy New Member

    No problem just was curious. And my theory is you never know until you ask

  3. piken

    piken New Member

    My issue with critical defence and there for z-Max is that the recent FBI tests that had them move from the 155gr and 180gr federal HST to the 165gr PDX1. But most other federal agencies are still using the HST's.

    These tests that I am talking about are searchable online and can't get to them here due to a firewall, so I will summarize the findings.

    Requirements for pass 12-14 inches of penetration with expansion to a minimum of .60.

    On this test the best performing ammo was as follows:

    PDX1 165gr Exp: .71 Pen: 13.4
    HST 155gr Exp: .96 Pen: 11.5
    HST 180gr Exp: .96 Pen: 12.6
    Ranger T 165gr Exp: .62 Pen: 12.7
    Ranger T 180gr Exp: .61 Pen: 13.8
    Gold Dot 165gr Exp: .76 Pen: 12.03

    In the test, the worst performing where as follows:
    Critical Defense 165gr Exp: .52 Pen: 13.4 (Under exp)
    Critical Defense 180gr Exp: .51 Pen: 14.3 (Under exp & over pen)
    DPX 140gr Exp: .64 Pen: 15.1 (over pen)

    On these findings the FBI and DEA went from a mix of 155gr and 180gr HST to the 165gr PDX1 due to better penetration with good expansion along with a round that is bonded allowing for better performance through barriers when needed.

    The results on this show that the critical defense is a good round, but doesn't meet the needs of law enforcement. Because of this reason alone, I will not touch it for HD/SD. If the ammo passes the tests of the FBI, it will stand the test of time. I have personally seen police open up on a man that was 6' 2" and drugged up while trying to beat an officer with a nightstick. The local office was using Critical Duty which performed better then the Critical Defense but still does not pass the FBI test. It took 5 shots center mass to put the man down along with a trip to the hospital for the officer that was permanently maimed by the attacker.

    Since this incident here in south florida, most if not all departments have switched to Ranger T's or HST's. I have not heard of any moving to PDX1's, but that is most likely due to the short supply of the LE size packaging due to the FBI contract.
  4. RRoss

    RRoss If it goes boom or bang, I want to play with it! Lifetime Supporting Member

    Carrying a G26 Gen4 w/ Speer GD 124gr in a Crossbreed Supertuck. I recently amazed a coworker who is looking into getting his first gun and CCW license when I put my rig on him and stood him infront of a mirror.
    Love my crossbreed!
  5. Nice post...thanks!
  6. SHOOTER13

    SHOOTER13 RETIRED MODERATOR Sponsor Lifetime Supporting Member

    Carry Ammo Thread(s)

    All Carry Ammo threads have been merged here...
  7. Winchester Ranger

    The Win Ranger HP ammo is the Black Talon with a different color jacket. This was relayed to me by my friend that has been in the loading business for 40+ years. I took a BT in 45 ACP and compared it to a Ranger and they look almost identical.I would think they are better now due to the improvements in the last decade.

  8. [​IMG]
  9. rivalarrival

    rivalarrival Are we there yet?

    Guess it's time to start three of four more ammo threads, then. :D