I can't remember the forum but I read a blog from a pathologist who also happens to be a shooter. He had first hand knowledge of damage left behind as all his customers had already gone on to other places. His preference was heavy bullets that would penetrate and not be deflected by bone before going through major organs. I really just boiled down a lot of his info and took out his reservations and exceptions ( but he carried a .45). Remember shot placement is king, and of equal importance is logistics. How many calibers do you want to stock? One (just one because there are many more) of the benefits of the glock system is commonality of mags. So if I get a 26 after I already have a 17, all my mags for the 17 will fit in the 26. Saving me from immediately having to buy more mags, and ammo on hand will work.
You probably saw it on AR15.com. I believe that's where he originally posted it.
As far as shot placement, which everyone goes on & on about in these caliber debates, because they're positive that even under stress they'll put all their rounds center mass, I'll say this; go watch the video of the NYC Empire State Building suspect shooting.
Say what you want about law enforcement not shooting as much as you do or NYPD's heavy triggers, and there will be any number of LEOs here who will argue back, and there will be any number of people who carried DA revolvers or DAO guns for a long time that will argue about the heavy, but consistent, triggers.
The results come down to when you're in fear for your life, the adrenaline is pumping and how much, and how well, you train is going to determine how well you shoot.
Very few CCW folks really train enough in shooting or drawing. Most don't ever get formal training and even fewer get stressed force on force training, which is still nothing compared to the real thing.
When you have tunnel vision, your fine motor skills are gone and you're fighting for your life, your shot placement is only going to be about 1/2 as good as your best training. Under stress, you're group size doubles, at least. That's assuming, of course, that you even get rounds on target.
Unless you're training daily in dry fire and presentation and at least weekly in live fire and presentation, you're going to be lucky to put rounds where you think they'll go.
This NYPD shooting is a good example of that. I haven't seen how many rounds were fired yet, or how many times the subject was hit, but we know they missed him entirely, from 10 feet or less, at least 9 times.
One of the officers was shooting one handed, while calling for backup with the other. How many people include significant one handed, or off hand training?
I know I'm guilty of not training enough. I live fire as much as I can afford to, but I'm in a position where it will often come down to not having an extra dollar in the month, much less $10. I have ammo, but it's in finite quantity and will be difficult to replenish.
Training videos don't take the place of a class, but they're a step above nothing, and those I have. I learned things I'm doing wrong, or not doing well enough at least, in 45 minutes of watching the first one. It's a start.
Thank you all for your advice and input,my concern is with carry and stocking up,mainly stocking up because 9mm is cheaper and easier to find and since it is a NATO round you can buy military grade ammo and in my opinion better quality ammo than what you will normaly find in stores as far as FMJ goes.As for carry im with Thesarge if a 9mm doesnt stop em more than likley bigger calibers wont either.Ive actually always been one of the "big caliber lovin 9mm hating guys" but looking at taking defensive classes and seeing EXPERTS with tons of training and combat experiance carrying the 9mm it has swayed me.
After spending several hours watching videos and reading the ballistic gelatin test results of various HPs in various calibers, I am warming up to 9mm. If I were ever to carry it, and this is also based on those test results, I would only carry 147gr, maybe 124gr, and I would most likely carry Speer Gold Dots.
Across all calibers, and compared to every major high quality brand of HPs, the Gold Dots were the most consistent in expansion in bare gelatin and through 4 layers of denim. Many other "high quality" HPs clogged with clothing, including Hydra-Shoks, which I carried for a decade and Hornady XTPs, which replaced the Hydra-Shoks. Right now, it's Critical Defense in .40 and Gold Dots in .45GAP.
Eventually, every HP I own, in all calibers, will be replaced with Gold Dots. They out performed all Hornady offerings, Winchester Ranger-T & PDX, Federal HST & Hydra-Shoks and the other old tech like Remington Golden Sabers. Some were closer than others, but none surpassed the reliability of the GDs.
I've carried .40 for almost 15 years and I'm more than satisfied with its capability and ammo capacity, as well as my shooting of it. I've never owned 9mm, but I have fired a G19 side by side with my G23 and I didn't really feel it was significantly less recoil or any more accurate.
I have found that I shoot .45GAP, which has become my favorite round now, a lot better than I shoot anything else. For me, that includes .45ACP. I let a friend shoot my G37 and he was surprised at how much easier it was to shoot over his .40. The first magazine he shot as well, and maybe a little better, than he did with .40. I also shoot it better than what I've shot with 9mm, even though I've shot about the same quantity of GAP & 9mm.
BUT I do carry "heavy per caliber" in 9mm using the 147.
