Caliber preference? 9MM? 10MM? .40? .380?

Discussion in 'Glock Forum' started by Dragnet, Sep 30, 2020.

  1. Yes..
    9mm(2)
    380(1)
    38S/357(1)
    22lr(3, one rifle, 2 pistols)
    223(556-rifle)

    I'm a fan of owning something that serves a specific purpose and is 'FTS'(Fun To Shoot), cuz I shoot all of them a lot. Not a collector, no safe queens.
     
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  2. Copy to the US Army, US Navy, USAF, USMC, etc...
     

  3. rbbeers

    rbbeers Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporting Member

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    Modern premium service/self-defense cartridges/bullets typically perform as shown below...

    Winchester Ranger FBI Protocol testing.jpg
    Excerpted from (an older printing of) Winchester LE Handgun Bullet Barrier Testing Protocol
    https://winchesterle.com/-/media/Pr...gun-Bullet-Barrier-Testing-Protocol_2016.ashx

    Best regards,

    Bob
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2020
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  4. At present, I rely on a .40 S&W for my home and EDC protection. It’s very familiar since I carried a .40 on duty for 22 years.
     
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  5. j102

    j102 Well-Known Member

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    Oops. Sorry.
     
  6. LostinTexas

    LostinTexas Well-Known Member

    Don't get too excited about all that. The decision was a NATO logistic one. USN is where I gained my distaste for the round. They use ball ammo, or did when I was using it.
    You can believe what you want.
     
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  7. j102

    j102 Well-Known Member

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    So, if we go back to the penetration vs expansion thread, and use the table above, considering the importance of enough penetration, we could say that 9mm 147gr is the way to go.
     
  8. rbbeers

    rbbeers Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporting Member

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    Personally, I came to that conclusion and agree with Jim. :)

    Best regards,

    Bob
     
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  9. j102

    j102 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. I’ve been carrying GoldDots 124gr +P forever. It’s a great round, but might have to consider 147gr next time I replace my carry ammo, which is usually about once a year.
     
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  10. LostinTexas

    LostinTexas Well-Known Member

    Use what you feel best about, but Ranger Bonded 147 gr. is where I planted my flag. We carry 165 HST or bonded Golden Saber in the 40's.
    That is just a Winchester chart, and I see no mention of the barrel length in the link (could have missed it), but probably duty so 4.25-4.5 in would be a good guess for the ballpark.
    Other companies make good and adequate as well.
     
  11. rbbeers

    rbbeers Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporting Member

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    From Winchester LE Handgun Bullet Barrier Testing Protocol
    https://winchesterle.com/-/media/Pr...gun-Bullet-Barrier-Testing-Protocol_2016.ashx

    "... Data generated using SAAMI test equipment and calibrated ballistic gelatin..."

    From SAAMI – Z299.3 – Centerfire Pistol & Revolver – 2015
    https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/ANSI-SAAMI-Z299.3-CFP-and-R-Approved-2015-12-14-Posting-Copy.pdf


    9mm Luger: 4"
    40 S&W: 4"
    45 Auto: 5"

    (Refer to pages 141, 163, and 168 of the above document or the attached drawings)​

    Best regards,

    Bob
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Oct 1, 2020
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  12. John in AR

    John in AR Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I recently started carrying 147 JHP's, but still am sometimes okay with lighter, faster stuff in some cases. In my circumstances, if I needed to use a gun defensively against a human, it's likely to be in a public, potentially crowded, place like a store, church, etc. For a long time my main carry load in 9mm has been corbon's 100-grain +P Pow'rBall load. It does underpenetrate relative to FBI standards, but they have a whole lot of energy, feed reliably in every gun I've tried them in, and in a social situation with potentially lots of bystanders, I personally can accept a somewhat reduced penetration factor. I'm not a fan of the super-light super-fast loads that some people love, but 100 grains at a measured 1463 fps from a g19 is in my comfort zone personally. To each his own, and not really the point of this thread.

    Historically, 147's have been iffy, at least a long time ago. I've only taken one animal with 147 JHP that I recall, nearly 20 years ago and it disappointed greatly. It was a good-size dog that had started killing other animals, shot thru the chest at less than 30 feet, and the dog looked at me for a minute, sat down and looked at me some more, and then finally laid down & expired. It was the old Federal Hi-Shok 147 from a glock 19, and after that incident for a long time I got away from any 147's for anything other than unsuppressed use. But partially based on the performance of 147 HST and 147 RA9T in the AmmoSeek tests, I recently bought a half case of winchester's Q4429, which I'm fairly sure is just a generic-packed, contract run version of the RA9T, loaded in brass cases instead of nickel plated. I've run ~250 out of the 500 rounds of it thru my 9mm carry gun to test, and have since settled on it for carry purposes. If things were normal in the ammo world right now, I'd probably go with 147 HST's myself, but this isn't the best time imo to be experimenting with changing carry loads; with all the ammo burning that that entails.

    I guess it goes back to my earlier comment of "if you let me pick the gun and the ammo, you can pick the caliber". If I was stuck in a world of "have to use FMJ", I'd not be carrying a 9mm in the first place; but in 45acp I'd be fairly content with it.
     
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  13. Firedog

    Firedog Well-Known Member

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    Im a .40 guy for carry, I own .45, 357, 38. 1 9mm P80 G26 which I still have to fix.
     
  14. Lucian_253

    Lucian_253 Well-Known Member Supporter

  15. I'm not excited at all but even tho military procurement can be a s-show, they DID pick a 9mm for their duty pistol..and it 'could' have been any other caliber on the planet. The US drove the 'globe' to 556, they could have done the same with some other handgun round.
     
  16. rbbeers

    rbbeers Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporting Member

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    Excellent article... and, in my opinion, 'spot on'! :)

    By my perception, one point that Shooting the Bull makes is rather understated...

    "Better shot placement can take years of training and effort and, sometimes, luck."

    Given the dynamics of an 'active shooter' scenario, even with the best shooters, 'luck' is a MAJOR factor in hitting those very small CNS areas that immediately "stop the threat'... and hitting the vital areas of the organs in the 'center of mass' to quickly 'stop the threat' requires as much or more luck than skill as well.

    In reality, a shooter's skill and accuracy on a static practice range have very little to do with 'better shot placement' during a dynamic 'active shooter' scenario.

    Simply stated, 'better shot placement' is much more luck than skill.

    Best regards,

    Bob
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2020
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  17. LostinTexas

    LostinTexas Well-Known Member

    Yea, the bean counters and Brass went along with the 9MM. The vast majority of NATO were using or planning to go that route, so we did as well.
    I liked .45. The load we used was warm and had a flat meplat, so it disrupted a lot of tissue. The old 230 ball would tumble a lot of times.
    The 9 was about as bad as it got. Round nose, 9mm, stayed true, and a few other shortcomings. It was loaded above the anemic US load specs though. Almost to +P speeds. Not that it made for much terminal difference.
    A lot of folks argued that the 9 would carry more ammo, but you needed every bit of it, so I saw it as a wash. I did like the Beretta. I didn't like the Sig.
     
  18. rbbeers

    rbbeers Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporting Member

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    Even relatively to older generation 9mm JHPs, a 9mm Luger RN cartridge is a very poor service/self-defense round.

    Best regards,

    Bob
     
  19. LostinTexas

    LostinTexas Well-Known Member

    LOL, I wasn't bragging on it. I get the Hague Conventions, and we follow them, but a flat meplat would do it some good.
     
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  20. rbbeers

    rbbeers Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporting Member

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    It would indeed. :)

    Best regards,

    Bob
     
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