[jimmyalbrecht]

I believe this is an awesome idea, but I have no idea about the operations of a rifle so someone please let me know I'm an idiot if I am. I play paintball, and my friend has something called a "reaction trigger" on his gun. This trigger uses the gas (CO2 in this case) to reset the trigger back to firing position after it is depressed therefore allowing for a much quicker follow up shot. You can fire the paintball gun at near fully-auto speed. So my idea is this: take the same concept and use the gases from a fired round to reset the trigger in a rifle. You get the same effect (near full-auto) but it is not an automatic rifle because it only assists in resetting the trigger. Could this be done? Or is this how an M-16 already operates in full-auto mode? lol

 

[Mike P]

put the lid back on the bottle and return it to the shelf...............

 

[jimmyalbrecht]

Thanks man, I appreciate it lol.

 

[jimmyalbrecht]

You're the kind of guy that would tell me I had a booger hanging out of my nose haha! I just don't want to look like any more of an idiot than I already do

 

[bhale187]

AK47 has something similar, It's called trigger slap

Seriously though, a spring returns the trigger to reset position as fast as the bolt can cycle (if you release tension on the trigger).

If you want similated full auto in an AR15 get a slidefire (bumpfire) stock

 

[jimmyalbrecht]

Did some research, and I still believe this is a legitimate idea. Currently, the gases cause the hammer to be cocked repeatedly by the gases and caught by the sear which releases the hammer if I understand correctly. So, as long as you hold down the trigger, it fires in full-auto mode when the selector switch is set there. Fully-automatic weapons are illegal unless you have a class 3 license (bummer). What I am talking about is taking a semi-auto, without the automatic sear, and using the gases to reset the trigger after every shot so you don't have to release it (the gases push it back out). This is not fully automatic technically, but you can fire just as fast basically. It's a safer, more controlled way of "bump-firing" (although I hate that term). The gases are ONLY used to reset the trigger, you must still pull it to shoot therefore it is still a semi-auto. It's like a happy medium. Does this make sense?

 

[bhale187]

I don't see how you are planning to reroute gases to the trigger instead of to the carrier key, and even if you could pull it off you are taking away gas blowback that is necessary to regular function of the bolt cycling.

Ignoring that BATF would surely instantly outlaw it, and ignoring seemingly impossible design, I think it would result in a terribly uncomfortable trigger slap.

 

[littleposerfish]

AK47 has something similar, It's called trigger slap

Seriously though, a spring returns the trigger to reset position as fast as the bolt can cycle (if you release tension on the trigger).

If you want similated full auto in an AR15 get a slidefire (bumpfire) stock

what ^ he said lol

 

[littleposerfish]

put the lid back on the bottle and return it to the shelf...............

mike lol!!!

 

[jimmyalbrecht]

Lol, just an idea. And it's really not that bad (at least with CO2). I hadn't thought about details yet, but it was an interesting concept in my mind. It really wouldn't take much to reset the trigger. It is weird to try to explain until you have used one. Try to find someone with a paintball gun that has one and you will see exactly what I'm talking about. Also, I made a mistake: it is a response trigger not a reaction trigger.

 

[Happysniper1]

Check out the Tac Trigger. Same idea, rapidly resetting the trigger, but using a different operations concept.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3ULUNaOTJY[/ame]

 

[littleposerfish]

cool deal happysniper

 

[jimmyalbrecht]

Thank you for believing Happysniper! You honestly have to witness this trigger in person to see what I am talking about. With the right amount of pressure, it almost fires itself. The trigger I am talking about has a lot more control top it than this one.

 

[nyycanseco33]

I'm kinda intrigued by this thread, I agree with Bhale in that the gasses of an AR are needed to cycle the weapon and therefore really can't be rerouted... Now I think if you use a hydraulic buffer and maybe plum a secondary intermittent gas system from the stock section to the trigger assembly using CO2 then maybe it could work... Would require some reworking the stock and lower receiver which would involve a little CNC tooling and that is over my head a bit... also I'm not 100% familiar on the legality and if the BATF would approve it for civilian use outside of their NFA rulings, the alphabet police are quite strict regarding things like this... These are just some ideas I have been thinking about regarding this topic, again I'm not sure if it would work... Please if someone has other ideas or changes please add on

 

[bhale187]

Isn't the Tac trigger, the GAT, the hellfire, hellstorm, et al considered an NFA and illegal by the BATF?

 

[Happysniper1]

I know that the Tac-Trigger is legal. I do not know about the others.

Sold at all the gunshows here in Reno. All the time.

Since it only converts the weapon to a rapid-fire semiauto, only one round per trigger pull, it does not meet the NFA definition of a full automatic.

At least as far as I know.

It takes some getting used to, you move the trigger finger, you do not squeeze the trigger, so the finger is somewhat limp....BUT, it won't stop firing until it runs outta ammo or you pull your finger outta the trigger guard.

I have fired my AR with this gizmo on it, in front of deputies from the SO, and all they said was "and that's NOT an automatic?". No issues at all, in my experience. But then again, this is Nevada

 

[jimmyalbrecht]

That's what my idea would do. It would take a trigger pull every time to fire. It just fires at full auto speed. Plus you're not attaching that thing to your trigger which seems kind of dangerous to me haha.

 

[rivalarrival]

I don't see how you are planning to reroute gases to the trigger instead of to the carrier key, and even if you could pull it off you are taking away gas blowback that is necessary to regular function of the bolt cycling.

Ignoring that BATF would surely instantly outlaw it,

This. They'd most likely re-write the definition of "machine gun" to include something about firearms with mechanisms that use the energy of the cartridge firing to reset the trigger, and suddenly a belt-loop would render an AR15 illegal as it can be used to bump-fire the gun.

and ignoring seemingly impossible design, I think it would result in a terribly uncomfortable trigger slap.

I think that's exactly what they're trying to design. The trigger slap would have to be pretty wicked if this design were to increase firing rates over that of typical semi-automatic fire. Bruised and possibly broken fingers would be typical.

 

[jimmyalbrecht]

I think that's exactly what they're trying to design. The trigger slap would have to be pretty wicked if this design were to increase firing rates over that of typical semi-automatic fire. Bruised and possibly broken fingers would be typical.

Not really. Please watch this video to see what I'm talking about. Skip to :34 to see the trigger. You're honestly telling me you can fire that fast with a regular trigger? I want to take this concept and port it over to a real gun.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXedjQ2JZt4[/ame]

 

[rivalarrival]

Not really. Please watch this video to see what I'm talking about. Skip to :34 to see the trigger. You're honestly telling me you can fire that fast with a regular trigger? I want to take this concept and port it over to a real gun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXedjQ2JZt4

I was commenting on the nasty trigger slap, not the rate of fire. I have no doubt that it can be set up to fire faster. Even in the video you posted, it didn't look pleasant; shifting it to a firearm, where the impulse is stronger and over a shorter duration, I think it would have to be even harsher.

I think it's interesting from a legal standpoint in that it follows the letter of the law while completely violating its spirit, but that's about it. It's a simple enough engineering problem.