80 Glock 19 won't chamber from a magazine

Discussion in 'Glock Forum' started by PfAntonio, Jun 7, 2018.

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  1. PfAntonio

    PfAntonio New Member

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    Hello everyone, this is my first post to this forum and I can't wait to explore more of the forum. I decided to do a polymer80 g19 build as I wanted to build it myself.
    Here is a link to everyone single part I bought including the channel liner tool.
    Frame: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/7...0-pct-pistol-frame-kit-glock-19-23-32-polymer
    Frame Parts: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/954622/glock-frame-parts-kit-glock-gen-3-9mm-luger
    Slide Parts: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/334163/glock-slide-parts-kit-glock-19-gen-3-9mm-luger
    Channel Liner Tool: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/904205/swenson-glock-channel-liner-tool
    Barrel: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/8...-1-2-28-threaded-muzzle-with-thread-protector
    Slide: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2...k-19-gen-3-9mm-luger-stainless-steel-melonite

    These are also the links to the ammo and mags I bought. Note the ammo is perhaps the cheapest I could find.
    Ammo: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/3...etal-jacket-bi-metal-steel-case-berdan-primed
    Mags: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1...-glock-19-gen-1-2-3-4-9mm-luger-polymer-black

    I assembled it all together as shown in the attached images and lubed up the rails and recoil spring. However, when I place a magazine in the gun and racked the slide to chamber a round; the round gets stuck, as shown in the picture. I can also put a round directly in the chamber and forcefully shut it, however, I'm pretty sure that's not good for the extractor. Any help is greatly appreciated.

    Round stuck on feeding ramp:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Assembled G19:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Frame:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Slide:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  2. rbbeers

    rbbeers Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporting Member

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    Welcome to the forum!

    Unfortunately, I don't see any pictures... just red Xs.

    Also, while I don't have any experience using steel-cased cartridges with Magpul magazines, I did note this review on the Midway website...

    https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1...-glock-19-gen-1-2-3-4-9mm-luger-polymer-black

    Most Liked Negative Review

    Don't use with steel cased ammo!!!
    I bought 3 Magpul 17 mags and 2 Magpul 15 mags to use with Winchester steel case ammo. I took the 17 mags to the range and had extreme difficulty loading them. Once loaded, they would not feed at all! Thankfully, I loaded my factory Glock mags with the exact same ammo, and they loaded, fed, and fired flawlessly all day. I tried loading the steel ammo into the Magpul 15 mags and had the exact same issue. I called Midway, and they were unaware of this problem and recommended I call Magpul. Magpul tech support said it is a known and common issue for these mags to malfunction with steel AND aluminum ammo, and recommended to take the mags apart and coat the interiors with CLP (which I don't have). Magpul said there is no other way to make them work reliably, even though they were brand new. I voiced my complaints with both Magpul and Midway. Midway said there was no info from the manufacturer that this was a known issue. I asked if they would be willing to return the Magpul mags and sell me the Glock factory mags at a slightly lower price, or at least free shipping, which they declined. The only solution Midway offered was to send it back for a return, but then I'm out the mags and the $4.99 shipping I originally paid. Note: these mags do work well with brass ammo, but the point of me buying these mags and steel ammo was to reduce overall equipment and ammo costs. I guess I'll keep them for practice/training, but this is a classic example of "you get what you pay for". I trusted my friends' advice and product description that these were just as good as Glock factory mags. After reading customer reviews, I am learning these are not as reliable as the originals, which is contrary to what is stated on the Midway website "...all with the same reliability you expect from an OEM magazine." I definitely learned a lesson the hard way. I'm also disappointed that Midway wouldn't meet me in the middle on this. I hope this review is helpful to someone.

    Have you tried brass-cased cartridges?

    Hopefully someone else who has used steel-cased cartridges with Magpul magazines will respond to confirm or rebut the '1 star' review quoted above.

    Good luck!

    Best regards,

    Bob
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2018
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  3. Southlake

    Southlake Moderator Staff Member Moderator Lifetime Supporting Member

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    Welcome to the Glock Forum
     
  4. Southlake

    Southlake Moderator Staff Member Moderator Lifetime Supporting Member

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    Thanks Bob!
     
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  5. TheKraken

    TheKraken 2021, Hold my beer Staff Member Moderator Lifetime Supporting Member

    Welcome to the forum from Oklahoma Antonio.
     
  6. PfAntonio

    PfAntonio New Member

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    Here is a link to a folder with all the images. Hope it's fairly self-explanatory, sorry I need 3 posts to add images.
    https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B7eq1hnWei4dLTg1QjlWcHEzY0k?usp=sharing

    Thanks for the welcome guys. So turns out I had some of that training 9mm ammo around(nickel case), no brass casing or any other ammo at the moment, I loaded it in the Magpul mag and I was able to chamber a round. An issue, however, was that it couldn't extract at all no matter how hard I tried to pull the slide back. I had to disassemble the slide and remove the firing pin because it was blocking the round.
     
  7. rbbeers

    rbbeers Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporting Member

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    You're very welcome!

    It appears the cartridges are 'too big' or the chamber of the barrel is 'too small'.

    To determine if the cartridges and the barrel 'like each other', perform a 'plunk test' (as demonstrated in the video below).



    If the cartridges don't fit the chamber, I suggest that you don't use them and try some other cartridges.

    You may also consider having the chamber of the barrel 'checked' by a competent gunsmith (as good chamber gauges are a tad expensive).

    If you have some decent calipers, making a few cartridge measurements may be insightful. The SAAMI specs are below.

    9mm Luger cartridge dimensions.jpg

    Please let us know what you find.

    Best regards,

    Bob
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2018
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  8. PfAntonio

    PfAntonio New Member

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    So I did the drop test and I'm able to drop in the ammo and it sounds like it does in the video. It also does not get stuck and it's able to drop out if I turn the barrel facing the sky.
     
  9. rbbeers

    rbbeers Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporting Member

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    Very good!

    Now, let's check the cartridge fit in the slide.

    The base of the cartridge should easily slide against the breachface (blue arrow) between the guide blocks (red arrows) and the extractor, all the way from the bottom to the top of the guide blocks, as shown below...

    Cartridge between guide blocks 1.jpg


    Also, together, the cartridge and barrel should fit and slide easily as well (shown below)...

    Cartridge between guide blocks 2.jpg Cartridge between guide blocks 3.jpg


    With the cartridge still chambered and the slide positioned as shown in the picture below, the barrel should remain 'up'...

    Barrel with cartridge in chamber.jpg


    With an empty chamber, the barrel should 'drop down' as shown in the picture below...

    Barrel with empty chamber.jpg

    Please let us know what you find.

    Best regards,

    Bob
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2018
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  10. rbbeers

    rbbeers Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporting Member

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    It seems that the 'Swenson' slide and barrel are private label parts (apparently) manufactured by a small machine shop in Texas exclusively for MidwayUSA.

    While I have no personal knowledge of these parts, the Internet seems to thinks the quality of the parts matches their price.

    For example, note the comments of the following video starting at 12:09...



    Simply stated, the barrel and slide didn't fit together properly... which was 'corrected'.

    Also, note that, at 14:20, 'that corner' to which the 'gunsmith' points is the bottom of the extractor-side guide block... an area that could cause the problem (I think) you're describing. So, be sure to check that area closely.

    Again, please let us know what you find.

    Best regards,

    Bob
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2018
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  11. PfAntonio

    PfAntonio New Member

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    Again thank you for the help, Bob.
    If you think I'm not diagnosing any of this right I'm happy to try different ways or upload a video so you can see me actually do it to make sure I'm doing it correctly.
    Edit: I still can't upload images, so here is a google drive folder link with the pictures sorted in order if you click to sort by name. https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B7eq1hnWei4dLUFEdDBCblVHSE0?usp=sharing
    Problem: Cartridge fit
    From the image, I took off the slide, took out the recoil spring, and the barrel. The firing pin was still poking through and so I wasn't able to slide the round through that area.
    A
    [​IMG]
    I did it again with the firing pin out and it slips in with a bit of tension but is held in place.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    B
    As for everything else regarding cartridge fit, it seems to pass the test.
    The cartridge and barrel fit well:
    C
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    The barrel doesn't drop with a round chambered:
    D
    [​IMG]
    And it falls down without a round in the chamber:
    E
    [​IMG]

    Problem: Barrel and Slide fit
    The barrel seems to drop in well, here are some images.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    F
    Again if anyone wants I'll even do a full assembly video if you think it'll help you understand the problem. Also thank you bob again for the help so far.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2018
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  12. rbbeers

    rbbeers Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporting Member

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    You're very welcome!

    You're doing fine.

    We're simply very methodically confirming 'what's necessary' for the pistol to chamber and eject a cartridge.

    It appears that your pictures are HEIC files... my guess is that the forum 'stuff' doesn't support that file type. JPG files seem to work well.

    Firing pin not retracted 1.jpg

    This is quite common when removing the slide. Many times the firing pin (red arrow below) remains 'captured' by the firing pin safety (orange arrow)...

    Firing pin not retracted 2.jpg

    To retract the nose of the firing pin (red arrow below), push the firing pin lug rearward (yellow arrow)...

    Firing pin not retracted 3.jpg

    Very good!

    We'll move on.

    The pictures below are views of the top cartridge in my G17.4 with a Glock OEM magazine...

    Top cartridge 1.jpg

    Top cartridge 2.jpg

    (Note: As I recall, I'm going to exceed the 'pictures per post' limit, so I'm going to 'break' the presentation here and finish it in my next post.)

    To be continued...

    Best regards,

    Bob
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2018
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  13. rbbeers

    rbbeers Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporting Member

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    For the next series of tests, so we don't have to 'fight' the springs, remove the slide, remove the firing pin assembly and the RSA from the slide, and then reassemble the pistol.

    (Note: To install the slide without an RSA, turn the pistol 'upside down', so the barrel clears the locking block... otherwise the barrel 'drops', preventing the slide from moving fully rearward.)

    Load a magazine with a cartridge, install the magazine in the pistol, pull the slide fully rearward, and then slowly move the slide forward until the ejection port view resembles the picture below...

    Top cartridge 3.jpg
    Note that the slide cartridge pickup rail has just contacted the base of the cartridge (red arrow).

    Continue to slowly move the slide forward until the ejection port view resembles the picture below...

    Top cartridge 4.jpg
    Note that the cartridge rim is close to disengaging from the magazine lips (red arrows above).

    Continue to slowly move the slide forward...

    Top cartridge 5.jpg
    If the slide is moved 'too slow', the case rim will 'jump' the extractor claw (red arrows above)... and the cartridge will probably 'fail to feed'.

    (By the way, this illustrates why 'slow slide speed'... caused by dirt and/or improperly lubricated slides... or slides that are otherwise 'binding'... causes malfunctions. 'Slow slide speed' simply allows the case rim to 'jump' the extractor claw.)

    Remove the magazine, replace the cartridge, and then reinstall the magazine.

    Repeat the steps above, gradually moving the slide forward a bit faster, until the case rim slides under the extractor claw as shown below (red arrow)...

    Top cartridge 6.jpg

    Continue to slowly move the slide forward until the ejection port view resembles the picture below...

    Top cartridge 7.jpg
    Note that the base of the cartridge continues to slide up the breechface (red arrow above).

    Continue to slowly move the slide forward until the ejection port view resembles the picture below...

    Top cartridge 8.jpg
    The cartridge is now properly chambered.

    Now, let's eject the cartridge... slowly.

    Slowly move the slide rearward until the ejection port view resembles the picture below...

    Top cartridge 9.jpg
    Note that the base of the case slides 'flat' down the breechface and the rim is still 'captured' by the extractor claw.

    Continue to slowly move the slide rearward until the ejection port view resembles the picture below...

    Top cartridge 10.jpg
    At this point, the ejector has just contacted the cartridge base.

    Continue to slowly move the slide rearward until the ejection port view resembles the picture below...

    Top cartridge 11.jpg
    The ejector (red arrow above) has pushed on the base of the case to the point that the cartridge is ready to 'pop out' of the ejection port.

    Please perform the above 'tests' and let us know what you find.

    Best regards,

    Bob
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2018
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  14. PfAntonio

    PfAntonio New Member

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    Hey sorry for the late reply, busy weekend to say the least.
    Again I hope it's not too much of a problem but here's the link to the .HEIC photos. I did exactly like you said and it seems to work perfectly fine. I'm not sure if it's luck, an added benefit, or actually a problem, but, whenever the cartridge jumped forward the claw always caught it.

    https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7eq1hnWei4dLVBGLThMSGtIX2c
     
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  15. rbbeers

    rbbeers Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporting Member

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    No problem... we're good.

    If that means that the cartridge consistently 'missed' the extractor and the extractor claw 'jumped' the case rim as the slide moved into battery, then there may indeed be a problem... or maybe the slide was simply consistently 'moving too slow'... in which case, it's no big deal.

    In any case, for the moment, let's move on to the next test. At this point, it should tell us what we need to know.

    For this test , use your fully assembled pistol.

    Load a magazine to its maximum capacity (to maximize the magazine spring tension) using cartridges that pass the 'plunk' test (refer to post #7).

    If you're using live cartridges, point your pistol in an absolutely safe direction... like a dirt berm... or 12"+ of sand... or 14"+ of newspapers... et cetera.

    Install the fully loaded magazine in the magazine well. Keep your fingers outside the trigger guard and repeatedly 'hard rack' the slide until the magazine is empty or a failure to feed or eject occurs.

    (Note: By 'hard rack', I mean 'yank' the slide rearward while simultaneously pushing the pistol forward.)

    If all is as it should be, the magazine will empty and the slide will lock to the rear with no failures to feed or eject.

    Please let us know what happens.

    Best regards,

    Bob
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2019
  16. rbbeers

    rbbeers Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporting Member

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    Just as an FYI, my 'safe box' is shown below...

    Safe box.jpg

    It's a 12" cube box filled with 3 12"x12"x2" concrete garden steps and newspapers (in alternating layers).

    At home, EVERY TIME I press the trigger of a firearm, the weapon is pointed at the center target of my safe box... no exceptions... even though I 'know' the chamber is empty.

    I also perform the 'hard rack' testing described in post #15 with the pistol pointed at my safe box... 'just in case'.

    Safety first!

    Best regards,

    Bob
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
  17. PfAntonio

    PfAntonio New Member

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    So using the dummy rounds, I loaded 10 into a 15 round magazine (all I had and I didn't want to use actual rounds because I don't have a berm or safe box, but I like the safe box idea so I'll probably build one later). Back to the original problem, the rounds get stuck on the feed ramp as shown in the image. However, I can slam the rear of the slide and the round will chamber. It extracts perfectly and on a few, about 4 of every 10, I don't even get a failure to feed. Do you think the failure to feed could be a symptom of brand new and not "broken in" parts that could be too tense in some way that causes the failure to feed?
     
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  18. uzitiger

    uzitiger Member

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    This is the first time that I hear about shooters having problems with steel cased ammo. I like Promag magazines and I hope that my Magpul magazine doesn't give me the problem which you are experiencing. I have Boelube if needed to lubricate the inside of the mag. It's a dry lube.
    The build videos tell you to shoot a few hundred rounds to break it in.
     
  19. rbbeers

    rbbeers Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporting Member

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    Cool!

    Ten is enough.

    Good to be safe. The safe box will serve you well.

    Sorry... I don't see the image.

    Can you load it again... or provide us a link?

    Well... maybe.

    But, in all honesty, if it's 'right'... it should work.

    So, let's try to determine what needs to be done to make it reliable.

    I'm willing to 'forge on' if you are.

    Best regards,

    Bob
     
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  20. rbbeers

    rbbeers Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporting Member

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    Given your comment...
    and your picture below (in which, the case rim appears to have 'missed' the extractor)...

    Missed extractor.jpg

    ... my current guess is that the issue may be that the cartridges simply 'don't like' the bottom of the breechface, guide blocks, and/or extractor. That is, there may something interfering with the case rim sliding freely and smoothly between the guide blocks, up the breechface, and under the extractor... possibly something similar to the guide block issue described in the video to which I referred in post #10.

    With the extractor removed, the case rim should have the clearances shown in the picture below...

    Cartridge on breechface 1.jpg

    With the extractor installed, the case rim should have the clearances shown below...

    Cartridge on breechface 2.jpg

    Also, it may simply be an optical illusion, but compared to my G17.4, the barrel hood tab fit of your barrel (red arrows below)...

    Barrel hood fit 1.jpg

    appears to be a bit tighter than the barrel hood tab fit of my barrel...

    Barrel hood fit 2.jpg

    Please ensure that the barrel hood tab slides up and down the breechface and between the guide blocks freely and smoothly.

    Also, when back-lit with a bright-white reflector, very small gaps between the slide ejection port and the barrel hood should be visible as shown below...

    Barrel hood fit 3.jpg

    Please let us know what you find.

    Best regards,

    Bob
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018