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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I want to get another Glock but i'm torn between .357 sig or .45 acp. If you guys can help guide me toward one that would be great.

Ps. It would be mainly for CC.
 

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Glockin’ since 1993
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I have 2 of each caliber. The .357's are more conducive to CC though. The .357's are slimmer. You also need to see which fits your hand better. The 21 has a pretty large grip. If you have big hands it's no problem. The 30 is nice but the 33 is way smaller. Performance wise either will take care of any situation. The 21 has the least felt recoil to me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Danzig said:
I have 2 of each caliber. The .357's are more conducive to CC though. The .357's are slimmer. You also need to see which fits your hand better. The 21 has a pretty large grip. If you have big hands it's no problem. The 30 is nice but the 33 is way smaller. Performance wise either will take care of any situation. The 21 has the least felt recoil to me.
I'm a big guy so grip size and concealment isn't that big of an issue but i am kinda leaning toward a .357 lol
 

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Wish I could help but u don't own either.. I will say I am becoming more and more intrigued by the .357 sig though
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
glocknloaded said:
Wish I could help but u don't own either.. I will say I am becoming more and more intrigued by the .357 sig though
Its ok, i'm starting to lean towards .357. It seems like no one has anything negative to say, so far lol
 

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The only thing negative is the price and availability of ammo for .357 sig. and that sig suffix:D
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Danzig said:
The only thing negative is the price and availability of ammo for .357 sig. and that sig suffix:D
The higher ammo price is to be expected, the firearm itself isn't much more expensive then others
 

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The 357 Sig fits in the same grip size as the .40 S&W which makes it convenient. If you have a .40 you can drop in a "Sig" barrel and be GTG.
On the OTHER hand...a M20/29 10mm would allow you to rebarrel to .40 if you feel the need, as well as the 357 Sig, but even BETTER, you can buy a drop-in barrel in 9x25 Dillon which is truly astounding by pistol standards.
Yes the M20/29 frame is larger, but it does offer the option of swapping to ANY caliber chambered in the Glock platform except the .45 ACP but it will do that with a slide and barrel change.
Unless super-tiny concealment is your mandatory paradigm, the M29 makes a lot of sense...and despite BS put out to confuse you, a REAL 10mm load beats any .45 ACP load.
 

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+1 to the above , if i could afford it now ... mmm . i know the above are "odd rounds" and they are a bit expensive and a bit more rare but they are just excellent, modern ammo. course 45 is not a bad round at all just a couple less rounds but more common. the CC part is the hard part. they are all good sized and more difficult to carry - least what people say. do you currently carry btw ??
 

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I think my previous post was a bit wide of the question...so let me try again.

The .45ACP and .357 Sig come in two different frame sizes. The .45ACP and 10mm share the large frame, while all other calibers come in the same basic grip frame size as the M17. So deciding between 357 Sig and .45ACP also means deciding if you want to carry a much larger, bulkier handgun...

With that said....consider that self-defense needs of a private citizen are not the same as a duty officer. The modern tilt toward big-bore, heavy bullets at pedestrian speeds is predecated on the FBI bias which mandates significant penetration through barrier material as well as tissue. What "nobody" ever tells you is the FBI "standard" makes a willing tradeoff of absolute stopping power for a more all-around terminal performance. Basically, the FBI isn't interested in an explosive single impact because they train for a different purpose.

The reason I point out what everyone else probably already knows is to illustrate that "we never had it wrong" with regard to stopping power before 1986. A light bullet, moving VERY fast - supersonic not to put too fine a point on it, creates a pressure impulse through tissue that "shocks" the nerve endings it contacts. This generally causes the impacted subject to "notice" more than does someone hit by a subsonic bullet of ANY diameter or weight. All the talk about "permanent crush cavities" is pseudo-science with no factual basis in LIVING tissue which behaves COMPLETELY differently than "dead" tissue such as hams, roasts, and chickens, and ballistic gelatin which only serves to create a skewed perception of terminal performance based on how abruptly the block expands and the size of the (imaginary) permanent crush cavity. Living tissue...is nothing like that. Certainly, certain ORGANS...primarily the lungs, are rather fragile and easily deflated and damaged, but other organs are much more sturdy...the heart is one. A human being CAN take a bullet through the heart and continue his or her attack for some amount of time UNLESS the bullet happens to be something in the 2xsupersonic class which carries enough of a shock wave pulse to burst the heart and render it instantly non-functional...subsonic pistol bullets CANNOT do this.

All that is to say this...the 357 Sig is capable of shoving a 125 grain bullet at 1450 fps...right in the ballpark with the .357 Rem Magnum when fired from a 4" barrel. At "defensive" range such bullets are well above supersonic and will have far more likelihood of causing an instant stop than any subsonic bullet of any diameter and weight.

The PERFECT example is the 5.56x45 NATO. A TINY, LIGHT bullet hitting at 3x SoS PULVERIZES nearby tissue as the bullet breaks in half at the cannelure to create divergent wound tracks and causes the person impacted to drop like a load of sandbags landed on him. According to the big-bullet, crush zone mythology currently being exploited to sell product, anyone hit by a 5.56 should simply brush it away like a mosquito bite and keep on coming....interesting that it was the FBI's poor tactics when confronting a single shooter armed with a Mini14 .223 Remington, that caused them to blame their equipment and establish the current fallacy of big slow handgun bullets, when CLEARLY the caliber that "won the day" was NONE OF THAT!

Anyone who claims they'd rather have a .45ACP with 7 or 8 shots over a 9mm with 18 shots has first, NEVER been in or around a real shooting situation, and second, has allowed themselves to be duped by advertising and hyperbole.

Okay...enough of the lecture....what this boils down to is....the 357 Sig would "likely" be the better all around caliber between the two choices you asked about. With that said, +P+9mm loads can deliver up to 500 lb-feet of KE which puts it ahead of the .45ACP/.40S&W/357Sig with any but the most powerful loadings available....plus, any way you slice it, a 9mm gives you more rounds per unit of magazine. The only autopistol caliber that shades a "hot" 9mm (by any meaningful quantity) is the 10mm, the 9x25, the .45 Super, and the .460 Rowland...but taking that path means you accept the tradeoff that comes with it.

Now....you do have a choice....all is not bleak for the venerable warhorse .45....because as it happens you can EASILY respring a Glock to allow you to shoot .45 SUPER which is moving the old ACP round into the medium magnum zone but in the large Glock (or XD "shussh") easily handled. You can step further up the foodchain by dropping in a .460 Rowland barrel, compensator, and spring and being in the .44 Magnum world....900+lb-ft of KE. But now you've taken the gun into a realm that may not suit your street purpose.....which brings us back to the Sig round....good bullet weight selection...factory ammo available...REAL SIG power ammo factory available, VERY modest recoil that allows rapid follow-up shots, and since the cases are basically necked down .40 cases, brass is cheap, once-fired brass is cheap, and you can roll your own.
 

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357 sig is enticing, but I think I will just get the 9x25 Dillon barrel for my G20c and buy the super expensive dies for it ($140) eeek!
 

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The .45ACP has been around before the advent of supersonic pistol rounds. The .45Colt was brought out of retirement due to the fact that the .38 round that replaced it wasn't cutting it in combat. The army conducted extensive testing with the then new .45ACP using methods that would make a PETA member stroke out. The efficacy of the round was proved shooting; live pigs, goats and even horses. That was with FMJ ball ammo too. There is 100 years worth of real world shooting with the .45ACP. I can't imagine it being less effective with state of the art hollow points.
That being said I've carried 1911, Glock 21 and Glocks 31 & 33. All of them will get the job done.
 

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HansGruber55 said:
I think my previous post was a bit wide of the question...so let me try again.

The .45ACP and .357 Sig come in two different frame sizes. The .45ACP and 10mm share the large frame, while all other calibers come in the same basic grip frame size as the M17. So deciding between 357 Sig and .45ACP also means deciding if you want to carry a much larger, bulkier handgun...

With that said....consider that self-defense needs of a private citizen are not the same as a duty officer. The modern tilt toward big-bore, heavy bullets at pedestrian speeds is predecated on the FBI bias which mandates significant penetration through barrier material as well as tissue. What "nobody" ever tells you is the FBI "standard" makes a willing tradeoff of absolute stopping power for a more all-around terminal performance. Basically, the FBI isn't interested in an explosive single impact because they train for a different purpose.

The reason I point out what everyone else probably already knows is to illustrate that "we never had it wrong" with regard to stopping power before 1986. A light bullet, moving VERY fast - supersonic not to put too fine a point on it, creates a pressure impulse through tissue that "shocks" the nerve endings it contacts. This generally causes the impacted subject to "notice" more than does someone hit by a subsonic bullet of ANY diameter or weight. All the talk about "permanent crush cavities" is pseudo-science with no factual basis in LIVING tissue which behaves COMPLETELY differently than "dead" tissue such as hams, roasts, and chickens, and ballistic gelatin which only serves to create a skewed perception of terminal performance based on how abruptly the block expands and the size of the (imaginary) permanent crush cavity. Living tissue...is nothing like that. Certainly, certain ORGANS...primarily the lungs, are rather fragile and easily deflated and damaged, but other organs are much more sturdy...the heart is one. A human being CAN take a bullet through the heart and continue his or her attack for some amount of time UNLESS the bullet happens to be something in the 2xsupersonic class which carries enough of a shock wave pulse to burst the heart and render it instantly non-functional...subsonic pistol bullets CANNOT do this.

All that is to say this...the 357 Sig is capable of shoving a 125 grain bullet at 1450 fps...right in the ballpark with the .357 Rem Magnum when fired from a 4" barrel. At "defensive" range such bullets are well above supersonic and will have far more likelihood of causing an instant stop than any subsonic bullet of any diameter and weight.

The PERFECT example is the 5.56x45 NATO. A TINY, LIGHT bullet hitting at 3x SoS PULVERIZES nearby tissue as the bullet breaks in half at the cannelure to create divergent wound tracks and causes the person impacted to drop like a load of sandbags landed on him. According to the big-bullet, crush zone mythology currently being exploited to sell product, anyone hit by a 5.56 should simply brush it away like a mosquito bite and keep on coming....interesting that it was the FBI's poor tactics when confronting a single shooter armed with a Mini14 .223 Remington, that caused them to blame their equipment and establish the current fallacy of big slow handgun bullets, when CLEARLY the caliber that "won the day" was NONE OF THAT!

Anyone who claims they'd rather have a .45ACP with 7 or 8 shots over a 9mm with 18 shots has first, NEVER been in or around a real shooting situation, and second, has allowed themselves to be duped by advertising and hyperbole.

Okay...enough of the lecture....what this boils down to is....the 357 Sig would "likely" be the better all around caliber between the two choices you asked about. With that said, +P+9mm loads can deliver up to 500 lb-feet of KE which puts it ahead of the .45ACP/.40S&W/357Sig with any but the most powerful loadings available....plus, any way you slice it, a 9mm gives you more rounds per unit of magazine. The only autopistol caliber that shades a "hot" 9mm (by any meaningful quantity) is the 10mm, the 9x25, the .45 Super, and the .460 Rowland...but taking that path means you accept the tradeoff that comes with it.

Now....you do have a choice....all is not bleak for the venerable warhorse .45....because as it happens you can EASILY respring a Glock to allow you to shoot .45 SUPER which is moving the old ACP round into the medium magnum zone but in the large Glock (or XD "shussh") easily handled. You can step further up the foodchain by dropping in a .460 Rowland barrel, compensator, and spring and being in the .44 Magnum world....900+lb-ft of KE. But now you've taken the gun into a realm that may not suit your street purpose.....which brings us back to the Sig round....good bullet weight selection...factory ammo available...REAL SIG power ammo factory available, VERY modest recoil that allows rapid follow-up shots, and since the cases are basically necked down .40 cases, brass is cheap, once-fired brass is cheap, and you can roll your own.
The only part I disagree with is the subsonic bullet not being able to completely stop the heart. Since the heart is an electrical organ any foreign object that can penetrate and reach the heart has a chance of impacting neuro pathways. Being a trauma RN I see GSWs at least twice monthly.
 

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The rn is right. I'm a medic and concussion cavity or not, the heart with a golf ball size hole thru it ain't pumping any blood, even if there is electrical activity. There will also be electrical activity in the brain as it experiences the answer to the ultimate question.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
df2dot said:
+1 to the above , if i could afford it now ... mmm . i know the above are "odd rounds" and they are a bit expensive and a bit more rare but they are just excellent, modern ammo. course 45 is not a bad round at all just a couple less rounds but more common. the CC part is the hard part. they are all good sized and more difficult to carry - least what people say. do you currently carry btw ??
I do, i carry a G19. I decided I'm going to go with .357sig, i appreciate all the advice and info from everyone. Thanks
 

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Its ok, i'm starting to lean towards .357. It seems like no one has anything negative to say, so far lol
Ammo is harder to find and when you do find it the price is more. If you handload then you've got to lube your cases or do a two step resize with a carbide 40S&W die which adds to the cost of equipment and adds time to resizing the cases.
357Sig is a Powder Hog, 9x19mm, 7.6grs of AA @7, [email protected], same load for the Sig takes 9.8grs of powder, a full 2.2grs of AA #7 to get the same 1100 fps.
While the ballistics do look tempting when you dig deeper I think you'd be happier with a 45acp. JMHO, YMMV.
 
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