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Obamacare

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Old 07-11-2012, 10:34 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by rivalarrival View Post
In 2014, it's a nominal fee, the greater of $95/person or 1% of a household's income.
In 2015, it's the larger of $325/person or 2% of a household's income
In 2016, it's the larger of $695/person or 2.5% of a household's income.
After 2016. The dollar amount is indexed to inflation; the percentage remains 2.5% of household income.
http://top-federal-tax-rates.findthedata.org/q/99/1003/What-was-the-Top-Federal-Income-Tax-Rate-in-1915

The top income tax rate in 1915, when income tax was first institutionalized in this country, was 7%. Look at what it is now. Are you going to be foolish enough to believe that the highest rate a citizen will ever pay for health care is 2.5%? Get real!
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Old 07-11-2012, 11:00 PM   #122
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http://americayouaskedforit.wordpress.com/2009/10/20/how-much-obamacare-costs-the-average-family/

Here is how much Obama care will really cost you. And this is just for starters.
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Old 07-12-2012, 12:50 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by billt View Post
http://top-federal-tax-rates.findthedata.org/q/99/1003/What-was-the-Top-Federal-Income-Tax-Rate-in-1915

The top income tax rate in 1915, when income tax was first institutionalized in this country, was 7%. Look at what it is now. Are you going to be foolish enough to believe that the highest rate a citizen will ever pay for health care is 2.5%? Get real!
The question was whether the mandate penalty was sufficient to convince people to purchase insurance - whether the penalty was trivial or not. It's not trivial, even if the 2014 penalty is not. Purchasing health care may cost more than 2.5% of someone's income, but they have traded dollars for coverage. Which is the better deal, handing over 3% of your income for coverage, or 2.5% of your income for nothing?

I don't believe I commented on what it would actually cost to acquire health care coverage, but I do know that the folks earning between 300% and 400% of the federal poverty line are expected to pay up to 9.5% of their income toward purchasing the second-lowest tier health care. If health care is not available to them at such a rate, it will be subsidized.
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Old 07-12-2012, 12:56 AM   #124
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http://americayouaskedforit.wordpress.com/2009/10/20/how-much-obamacare-costs-the-average-family/

Here is how much Obama care will really cost you. And this is just for starters.
The numbers there disagree with the numbers I've read. This calculator seems accurate.
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Old 07-12-2012, 01:00 AM   #125
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The authorities that deal with fraud try to deal with fraudsters. It's a huge problem that can't be eliminated despite vigorous prosecution. When I lived in NJ the auto insurance industry cited fraud as a significant factor in the incredibly high rates in that state. Now your talking about a system encompassing the entire US population. Besides all the other issues of Obamacare fraud will add great costs to it.

Argue all you want. If Obamacare succeeds the US will suffer an avoidable hardship.

The only way you will believe the majority of posters on this thread is when it is implemented and you're retirement is nowhere near what it was expected. I suspect you will blame a different factor though.
It's pretty easy to defraud an auto-insurer. Get in a wreck, make it look like the other guy is at fault, collect the settlement. How do you defraud the health care industry?
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Old 07-12-2012, 01:03 AM   #126
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Doctors do it everyday.....
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Old 07-12-2012, 01:26 AM   #127
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The numbers there disagree with the numbers I've read.
That's because you're reading the wrong numbers.
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Old 07-12-2012, 02:23 AM   #128
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It's pretty easy to defraud an auto-insurer. Get in a wreck, make it look like the other guy is at fault, collect the settlement. How do you defraud the health care industry?
Example. My mother received an "statement of benefits" from medicare showing how much they paid on her behalf to a certain hospital for "follow-up" care. The problem with the statement was that it never happened. The hospital billed Medicare for 7 doctor visits that never tool place. When she called Medicare to ask about it, they didn't know how to handle it. In the end the hospital got paid and we the tax payer ate it.

Multiply this scenario by the number of people in the US.

I'm sure there are countless examples of similar fraud that happens daily.
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Old 07-12-2012, 03:12 AM   #129
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Your cost cutting citations are completely bogus, and spouting "party line". I refuse to continue to participate in this discussion. When I am told that I can't disagree with SCOTUS, I am being told that I am not allowed to think. SCOTUS has been proven wrong before, and I believe that history will prove me right on this. Whether you choose to respond is your choice, but I am done.
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Old 07-12-2012, 03:21 AM   #130
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That's because you're reading the wrong numbers.
At least one of us is reading the wrong numbers. I'll have you start at page 24 of this document (page page 20 as printed) http://www.bingaman.senate.gov/policy/crs_privhins.pdf

Your link says "If your household income is $66,000 a year, slightly above the national average, Obama’s health care bill will require you to spend 12 percent of your income — about $8,000 a year or almost $700 a month — to buy health insurance before you get any federal subsidy."

It doesn't say the size of the household. The only people eligible for subsidies are those earning below 400% of the federal poverty line, (which depends on household size) and those not eligible for medicare, (which is supposed to be expanded to anyone earning less than 133% of poverty level)

For a household of 1 or 2, 66k is above the 400% limit and no subsidy will be paid.
For a household of 3, 66k is ~346% of FPL. The maximum annual out-of-pocket premium for such a family is capped at 9.5% of annual income
For a household of 4, 66k is 286% of FPL, Maximum out-of-pocket premium is 8.05% of income.
Household of 5 and 6 are 244% FPL and 213% FPL; cap is 6.3% of income
Household of 7 and 8 are 188% FPL and 170% FPL; cap is 4% of income

For any of these, you would only be eligible for subsidies if the cost of the plan was greater than your maximum out-of-pocket premium expense.

The numbers you cited are factually wrong.
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